Tiernay tt-10 true horse power

[racket]

Hi Guys

Measure the compressor inducer area , a commercially produced engine should be capable of at least ~15 hp/square inch of inducer area .

BUT ........derated engines can be fitted with "restrictive" NGV throat areas that "optimise??" the engines performance at low "derated" T I Ts , and if you wish to maximise the horsepower output by running higher temperatures the NGV will probably need replacing by one with larger throats .

Cheers
John

[gidge348]

The 10kw is on the gearbox for the turbine, I have not been able to get at the inducer to measure it though.

Ian...

[GrantB]

Sorry for the late reply. Here is the message i got from the horses mouth.

"Hello Grant,

The below info is in response to your questions about the TT-10 gas turbine engine.

The TT-10 engine only produces 25 to 30 SHP. I have no idea what classification of vehicle you are considering, but the low power probably means it is not suitable for your application. It’s purpose was to drive a 15 kW DC generator.

There should be no oiling issues because the engine was certified to operate at inclined attitudes of 15 degrees in any direction.



We designed and built a TT-40 engine that will produce around 125 HP that is basically the same size and weight as the TT-10, but most of it’s output is not shaft. It is mostly a bleed air engine, and would require modifications for 125 shaft HP.



I’m interested in your venture because I have assisted in building gas turbine powered dragsters with various gas turbine engines, but I’m afraid our old engines are not what you need."

I will end up putting this on my go kart and will try and get actual numbers some time in the next year or two but im only expecting maybe 25hp. If i can make anything more substantial this will be the first place i post up.

[racket]

Hi Grant

Even 25 hp on a kart will produce impressive performance , my gut feeling is that you should get more , even if it needs a few mods to get it :-)

Cheers
John

[GrantB]

Its going on my laydown enduro kart which went 118mph with a 17hp kt100 at daytona. Im hoping to be able to hit 130 at Bonneville or a little more on a solid surface.

[gidge348]

Hi Grant,

If you want to run a laydown kart at Bonneville can I suggest you look at lengthening the wheelbase and getting at least 1.5 to 2 inches ground clearance.

Most of the Karts I have seen running on salt swap ends VERY easily, like www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQJ4AzNOM14

Also on the salt you really want the weight as far forward as possible.... ever tried throwing a dart backwards?... throw it with the point (weight) forwards and it tracks fine. Put the point (weight) to the rear and it swaps ends.... A bad thing at 130mph on the salt.

If this project was mine I would investigate extending the rear axel position and have the engine between the axel and the driver. That way you extend the wheelbase and shift the balance forward. I would also look at making a simple 2 bar ladder frame that does not have the axel drops of a Kart frame. This would give you the ground clearance. You could still use all the axels, wheels steering etc that you already have.


Ian...

[racket]

Hi Grant

Isn't the TT-10 a single shaft engine ??

If it is, then you'll be needing an "accommodating" transmission to allow you to keep the engines rpm in the "power band" which will be from >75% rpm up to 100% , single shaft engines are like very highly tuned racing IC engines.

Take Ian's advice and try to get the weight between the wheels, I had an "overhung" engine with my two shaft kart and wasn't happy with its handling despite having a large heavy lead acid battery in the nose to try and balance things up a bit .

Cheers
John

[GrantB]

I didn't know there were so many salt guys on here

Yea I have finished a jig table I will use to build a new chassis from stainless steel tube that will get a much better weight distribution. The goal is not an out right speed record but a distance/speed record from the FIA. This project will aim to see what kind of excitement I can get behind the turbine distance records. If the kart performs well I feel like I can look for real sponsorship to build a legitimate race car. I will use as many materials as possible that have a high corrosion resistance as possible. But I still have a feeling the kart will be destroyed at the end of the record. I would consider running this on pavement if there are not any hard barriers.

I will use an smc axle clutch. I spoke with them about it and the owner said it will handle the power no problem assuming I keep the clutch locked up.

When I get a little farther I will make a build thread. I have a habit of making threads about projects that get shelved due to my mind wondering.

[gidge348]

John, I am pretty sure you are right, the TT-10 is a single shaft engine.

There is another problem with the TT-10 and that is throttling it. I remember reading some university was playing around with the FADEC system to get it to throttle but had a lot of problems, not sure if they came up with an answer?

One thing I was thinking about was how would a "Manualised" CVT transmission from a small 4 cylinder car go? Just start the engine and run up to 100% and then use the transmission to vary speed?

Grant, with making the chassis out of "corrosion resistant material", just be careful 316 stainless and 4130 or mild steel react very differently vibrations and loads. Stainless has been used on the salt in the past but a few scrutineers are not that happy with it in certain high load applications. Mild steel is a known material and as long as it is TOTALLY painted and cleaned (dry/no water) after the salt and oiled corrosion can be kept at bay.

[ozbooster]

If you want to run at any of the regular salt events you will need to build to the associations regulations ,not cheap on 4 wheels , you may need to meet the same safety requirements as a full size car , bar size and material is pretty well defined within SCTA and 3 of 4 salt events are to there rules
only FIA happening on the salt at the moment is Cook Shootout , this also has quite a large entry fee ,landspeedevents.com



Not trying to put you off, just forwarn , hope to see you on the salt one day

[GrantB]

This vehicle won't be run at any event due to the unique requirements of the records I'm going for. I will either have to obtain a permit from the blm or rent out a race track in the off season.

I appreciate the replys none the less.

[gidge348]

Hi Grant, If you want to go for a "recognised" FIA world record not at a FIA event you will need to get all the timing equipment, FIA sanctioning people and whole host of things yourself....... This would be VERY expensive.

All we are suggesting is maybe read the rule book and try and build within those rules. I cant find a copy of the SCTA rules online but here are the DLRA rules (a free down load)

www.dlra.org.au/rulebook.htm

Even if you decide not to run at an event or go it alone, it will all be a lot easier if you follow a recognised set of rules.

I would really like to see this happen and there are classes for your vehicle Ω<500kg for example. And other speed and distance records through other organisations.

[GrantB]

I have been in contact with David Petrali who is the U.S. FIA chief scrutiner. This kart is just a proof of concept for future corporate sponsorship for my version 2 turbine vehicle which will adhere to and exceed what ever the track requirements are.

My kart will meet or exceed the safety requirements set forth by the wka or ika.

I don't believe a tiernay tt-10 can provide enough power to beat the Linsmeyer streamliner, or you could say I don't want to try and design and finance one that will.

The scta rules have to be purchased for $10.

[ozbooster]

Dave is a good guy , We race bikes at the shootout and the event is small enough to meet everyone involved
If you meet FIA sanctioned classing (WKA and IKA ) it would probably be cheaper to become involved with the shootout than get the appropriate people together for a private record run