Feathers
Veteran Member
Joined: August 2010
Posts: 169
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Post by Feathers on Mar 14, 2017 22:02:14 GMT -5
Hey Anders,
I love the idea with the foam. We have such problems with vapor and droplets in the oil vent making a mess, and I think it would help as an air-oil separator before the vent.
I was just wondering if the foam will handle the heat. I'm not sure if it comes with any information. Outlet oil temperature can be a bit high.
Thanks!
- Feathers
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Post by Johansson on Mar 14, 2017 23:53:42 GMT -5
Hey Anders, I love the idea with the foam. We have such problems with vapor and droplets in the oil vent making a mess, and I think it would help as an air-oil separator before the vent. I was just wondering if the foam will handle the heat. I'm not sure if it comes with any information. Outlet oil temperature can be a bit high. Thanks! - Feathers Hi Feathers, I cannot imagine that the foam can be damaged by sub-100°C temps , but I´ll do a boiling test in water tonight and get back to you with the results. Cheers! /Anders
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Post by Johansson on Mar 15, 2017 15:38:18 GMT -5
I did a scientific test with the foam today, first I boiled it in water for half an hour while making dinner. No problem at all. Then I dropped pieces of foam in both Jet-A1 and 0w30 oil, they were just fine after an hour but I will leave them in for a couple of weeks and check in on them again. I ran the oil tank in the hot water cleaner at work until it was perfectly clean, and tonight I cut a block of foam and fitted inside the tank. I left a small hole closest to the oil returns so the oil can get into the tank without anything blocking it. There is also an empty space at the bottom where the oil pickup is, the theory is that the large foam area will flow more than enough oil down to the pickup even when the oil is cold. As soon as I have run the oil through an external filter to clear out any piece of dirt in the foam I will run the oil system for some time to find out if it will work. I cut out a gasket for the lids and fitted them with a layer of gasket silicone to make them seal correctly around the riveted nut heads. My original idea was to have the tanks painted black just like the fairings, but I decided against it since I might have to modify the tanks in the future and having them painted would complicate the job. Cheers! /Anders
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Post by racket on Mar 15, 2017 16:12:15 GMT -5
Hi Anders
Is there any possibility of the foam shifting under heavy braking/acceleration and covering your ports ??
Cheers John
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Post by Johansson on Mar 15, 2017 16:19:35 GMT -5
Hi Anders Is there any possibility of the foam shifting under heavy braking/acceleration and covering your ports ?? Cheers John Hi John, I don´t think so, it has a snug fit in the tank. Even if it would I still think it would be fine, the pores are pretty large so the oil shouldn´t meet much resistance flowing through it. Cheers! /Anders
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Post by racket on Mar 15, 2017 16:44:42 GMT -5
Hi Anders
Thats good ,.............. I've never had anything to do with tank foam so just being over cautious as always ;-)
Cheers John
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Post by pitciblackscotland on Mar 15, 2017 17:02:48 GMT -5
Hi Anders, If this foam doesn't work out what about using scourer material Cheers, Mark.
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Post by Johansson on Mar 15, 2017 23:48:09 GMT -5
Hi Anders, If this foam doesn't work out what about using scourer material Cheers, Mark. There is a similar material called Explosafe that is used in fuel tanks instead of foam, a bit more expensive than foam but without the potential drawbacks. Too bad I heard of it when I already had bought foam for a workdays salary...
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Post by Johansson on Mar 16, 2017 0:12:01 GMT -5
I lay awake last night thinking about the oil tank (strange, when I was 10 years younger it used to be naked women...) and I think I need to move the foam so that the foam-free section is furthest back.
Here is why: When I accelerate the oil is thrown rearwards and when I later apply the brakes the oil suddenly rushes forward. If there is a large open space in the front of the tank all of the oil not trapped in foam will flow there and starve the rear section where the pickup tube is of oil, the oil trapped in foam will be slower to react and won´t fill up the rear section fast enough.
If I move the open space to the rear it will act as an oil buffer when I brake and keep the area where the pickup tube is filled with oil until the negative G´s are over. Now the slow reacting foam trapped oil will work with be, it will act as a brake for the forward rushing oil.
I will cut away the upper front corner of the foam where the oil returns are to give them a small open space to settle down into the foam.
Cheers! /Anders
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Post by jetjeff on Mar 16, 2017 1:29:21 GMT -5
Hey Anders,
LOL! You're never too old to think about naked women, but at 55 you'll set your sights much lower. A full set of teeth would be nice, but not totally essential,,,lol.
Jeff
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marvnero
Member
Joined: February 2017
Posts: 33
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Post by marvnero on Mar 16, 2017 17:44:15 GMT -5
Hi Anders,
Interesting idea to use foam instead of a more complicated baffle system to keep the oil where it should be, I've never heard of this before. I'd really like to know whether it works as good as it is supposed to work or not. That foam would safe me a lot work constructing a sufficient baffle system in my own oil tank.
Laying awake and thinking tirelessly about some technical stuff is a bad habit of me as well...in fact that keeps me from getting enough sleep more often than my girlfriend does lol
Cheers, Marvin
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Post by Johansson on Mar 17, 2017 14:54:34 GMT -5
Hey Anders, LOL! You're never too old to think about naked women, but at 55 you'll set your sights much lower. A full set of teeth would be nice, but not totally essential,,,lol. Jeff Ha ha! I find the expectations getting lower and lower for each passing year, still only at 35 but I miss the years when I could piss longer than I was tall... Hi Anders, Interesting idea to use foam instead of a more complicated baffle system to keep the oil where it should be, I've never heard of this before. I'd really like to know whether it works as good as it is supposed to work or not. That foam would safe me a lot work constructing a sufficient baffle system in my own oil tank. Laying awake and thinking tirelessly about some technical stuff is a bad habit of me as well...in fact that keeps me from getting enough sleep more often than my girlfriend does lol Cheers, Marvin Hi Marvin, I have gotten a handful of replies from fellow land racers about the foam, most tell me stories about blocked fuel filters and carbs from crap coming from the foam. Not exactly what I wanted to hear but very useful since I think I can sidestep this problem by filtering the oil/kero properly before letting it into the engine. Women keep you awake for half an hour, workshop problems keep you awake all night. Cheers! /Anders
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miuge
Veteran Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 199
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Post by miuge on Mar 17, 2017 16:49:00 GMT -5
Hi Anders,
I think it might work in both fuel and oil tank as you've already proven it does even cope high temperatures. I don't know what's the specification of the foam you're using, but here's directly copied FAQ from JAZ fuel cell site:
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Post by Johansson on Mar 18, 2017 16:46:22 GMT -5
Hi Anders, I think it might work in both fuel and oil tank as you've already proven it does even cope high temperatures. I don't know what's the specification of the foam you're using, but here's directly copied FAQ from JAZ fuel cell site: I have fitted the oil tank to the bike, filled it up and been circulating the oil back to the tank through an automotive oil filter to get all of the crap out of the tank before I run the oil into the engine. The pressure seems very stable despite that the flow must be much higher than during normal running since there is no restrictions in the oil line while pumping through the filter and back to the tank. So far so good, I´ll be filtering the oil a bit more later, I´ll keep it running while I work on other things in the workshop. I´ll do the same with the fuel tank later, I have a fine mesh steel filter (thanks Ernie for sending them in the goodiebag a couple of years ago!) that I will use for that. Easy to take apart and check for particles so I will keep filtering the kero until there is no more crap to be found. The real test is when I race the bike though, if I can brake hard without the engine shutting down I can consider the foam a smashing success. Cheers! /Anders
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Post by Johansson on Mar 19, 2017 14:58:02 GMT -5
As stated earlier I´ve been filtering the oil through an automotive filter for a while to get rid of any small foam particles that might be stuck in the tank. I have also been filtering the kerosene the same way, although the fuel pump has an intake screen that should take up most of any dirt in the system. After running the fuel pump at full speed for a couple of minutes I checked the pump screen and it was perfectly clean, so I think I am good to go. I will keep checking the inline filters after every run to see if there is anything in them, in case something blocks up the safety systems will shut the engine down before any damage can be done to it so I am not concerned at all. Cheers! /Anders
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