about that hamilton starter....

[racket]

Hi Chris

LOL........you live such a complicated life ...............I'll sit back and watch you ride it out :-)

Yeh , venting is probably the easiest and safest way to modulate the power , there should be an "over pressure" valve system already in the starter , can that be used/modified to do the job ?

Cheers
John

[turbochris]

John, I have like 3 people I really like that are not on my facebook page. get on FB! there's a land speed battle brewing and there's a jet rocket turbonique page. You're missing all the stuff! The overpressure valve would probably work fine but we may just use a big N2O solenoid. Ernie has loads of them.

[Richard OConnell]

HAPPY DAY! The tides are in our favor! The slow canoe from China has finally drifted to the shores of America with some of the parts required to make STAN think! Props to you, brave adventurer of the high seas..

[turbochris]

the tank aspect sounds like it's getting complicated. Keith said the tank has to be certified now? LMK what i can do.

[Keith LeBlanc]

The meeting with the boiler guy did not go as I thought....at all.
1. He said first off that there is no way that when we open the throttle, (or whatever you want to call the last valve in line before the turbine inlet)we will make only steam at the nozzles. We will have combo of water and steam. Also the steam will start to condense to water as it hits the much cooler turbine parts. I'm sure they will get warmed fairly quickly, but even 2 seconds on a 9 second pass is a long time to be spewing any water.
2. We need a vacuum break on the tank. Since we are running the tank to empty we will go from positive pressure to negative as the tank runs out and will see partial vacuum at least before air can find it's way in from the turbine end. A brief search on web did not locate any units in our temp or pressure range.
3. He wants the tank to be 2 compartments or 2 inter-connected tanks. 1st holds the water and heating elements. Baffle with opening near top common to both sides to allow steam to fill 2nd compartment. And we have to pull steam only from top of this steam compartment. Seems to me, there would be a lot of condensate generated in this steam compartment. We do not want to do this.
4. Chris' preferred method of heating this tank is from some sort of external electric heat source wrapped around the outside of the tank itself. Like nitrous bottle heaters, but much more powerful and capable of much higher temps. I have calculated, perhaps wrongly, that it takes roughly 7.25kW to raise the temp of 7 galls of water from 70deg F to 500deg F in one hour, assuming 100% efficiency, which we know is not possible. I would prefer an internal electric element in direct contact with the fluid.
5. He wants all the hp rating of the turbine, drive ratio, output shaft rpm, tire diam. to make sure we have enough steam.
6. We did not go over this in this meeting, mostly cuz he wants the figures he requested so he can get a better idea of what's going on, but it sure sounds like he wants to set this up as some sort of ASME regulated boiler of some indeterminate class with all the strictly regulated construction, installation and even control systems that the law requires.
Can someone with some steam experience help us make sense of all this stuff. I have no interest in becoming a licensed boiler operator or changing careers at this point in my life, or become a criminal for illegal boiler operation. And my head is really starting to hurt.
Thanks in advance.
Keith LeBlanc

[racket]

Hi Keith

I'll see if I can contribute some input here having been a boiler operator.

Firstly you want water and steam going through the turbine to maximise mass flow and horsepower , steam alone won't do it as the DeLaval nozzles don't have sufficient throat area.

Seven gallons of water won't be emptied in the pass time frame with the nozzle sizes we have, the reference I'm using is from Truax text , steam rockets development and application , heres a Link to purchase a copy www.canosoarus.com/10X1Skycycle/Skycycle04.htm
You'll be shutting off the flow before the of the pass.

Whats he worrying about "vacuums" for, the tank will be more than strong enough.

I'd be going external heating as well , internal heating could break up and block the outlet .

Truax uses external propane heating , the BBQ bottle should be good for several reheats .

I've already done a lot of the numbers for Chris.

Here in Australia you would need a Boiler Attendants Certificate to operate this "device" , high temperature/pressure steam is dangerous stuff , but its the "over heating" of the metal container/boiler in the steam space that is of main concern as the resultant weakening of the pressure vessel could result in it exploding at well below its certified pressure rating . ..................as long as only the water space is heated , all should be well as theres a direct relationship between the metal/water temperature and the steam pressure.

With a one hour heating time frame for 7 gallons , the actual heat transfer rate is very low, so it should be easily controlled .

If you have any other questions , please ask :-)

Cheers
John

[Keith LeBlanc]

Well, after a reeeeeeeeeeeeeally long delay, welding has begun on the tank!
Yay.
Keith LeBlanc