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Post by Johansson on Apr 26, 2012 7:19:09 GMT -5
I will check the receipt for the company name, I have forgot what it was. It cost me 3800Skr (430 euro).
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ashpowers
Veteran Member
Joined: February 2011
Posts: 207
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Post by ashpowers on Apr 27, 2012 9:04:09 GMT -5
Something that I came across yesterday while on a boat ride with the family. The hydraulic trim pumps that are used for trimming outboard engines are likely candidates for lube pumps for our engines. Has anyone looked into using these before?
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Post by Johansson on Apr 27, 2012 15:50:30 GMT -5
I find it rather incredible that there isn´t a shitload of companies offering 12V gear pumps that can produce up to 10 bar oil pressure, I mean the 2 stroke turbo sled community would probably kill for a decent sized pump so they don´t have to run expensive ball bearing turbos and they would be perfect for lots of other applications as well like our DIY turbines, waste oil burners and so on.
Someone who knows anyone involved in the chinese industry? A hint might be all that it takes.
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Post by racket on Apr 27, 2012 18:36:45 GMT -5
Hi Ash I looked into trim pumps , high pressure but the flow wasn't enough for me , and they were expensive, that's why I went to the cheap DC motors www.electricscooterparts.com/motors.html , I use the 36 V # MOT-36500X2500 and run it on 12V at ~8-900 rpm , it drives my Subaru pump www.ebay.com/itm/Subaru-Brat-Standard-DL-GL-GF-GLF-and-FE-Oil-Pump-F4-1000-15010-AA120-/220924114647?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3ASubaru&hash=item33701a76d7&vxp=mtr for a flow of ~9-10 litres/min , the Subaru pump has all the relief v/vs, bypasses etc and a filter mount , and best of all it weighs virtually nothing being alloy other than the gerotor bits ................theres a requirement for an adaptor to be machined up and a coupling piece for the oilpump tang to fit into ..................allup it can be made for <$200 and those Subaru pumps are good for whatever abuse you want to throw at them . I've looked around for a "12V motor" with a thick output shaft , something ~3/4" dia would allow the female tang slot to be machined directly into it making mounting of the Sub pump easier , but without success :-( Cheers John
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ashpowers
Veteran Member
Joined: February 2011
Posts: 207
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Post by ashpowers on Apr 27, 2012 21:15:28 GMT -5
Gotcha - after I made that post it did occur to me that the speed at which the outboard motor would pitch was rather slow and the thought crossed my mind that it is likely a high-pressure, low-volume design.... typical of a pump design used for hydraulic cylinders.
In the Nissan Z cars I work with, they use a small hydraulic vane pump for the front and rear hydraulic steering assist. I have rebuilt a few of them over the years - they are a very reliable component. The vane rotor has a diameter of about 1.75" and a height of 5/8". This pump is capable of producing significant pressure and flow volume. The pump body has a really compact design - total size is only around 3" dia and 4" length. It has an internal pressure relief valve that could be fitted with a different spring or left as-is and externally regulated. Parts like this can be pulled out of vehicles in salvage yards for pennies on the dollar and coupled to an appropriately sized DC motor, also for cheap through several sources. Instead of direct shaft-shaft coupling, "timing belt" style belts and pulleys can be obtained which would also allow you to adjust drive ratios between the motor and pump for optimal operation.
What kind of oil and what viscosity are you guys using with your journal bearing setups?
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Post by racket on Apr 27, 2012 23:27:29 GMT -5
Hi Ash We looked at "power steering" pumps and my mate Andrew did a number of mods and experiments with them to determine flow vs pressure vs power consumption compared to our Subaru pumps , the power steering pumps were very good but also required extra pressure relief and filter bits which increased the overall envelope , so we went with the Sub pump due to its compactness .
I've been considering a pressure and scavenge setup using toothed belts to get the increased flow for the scavenge system whilst maintaining relatively low DC motor rpm , could you give me a Link to those Z car pumps , they sound encouraging :-)
Oil used for the GT6041 engine was synthetic 5W-40 , on the earlier bike build I used 15W-50 semi synthetic to maintain the 90psi oil pressure with hot oil .
Cheers John
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ashpowers
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Joined: February 2011
Posts: 207
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Post by ashpowers on Apr 28, 2012 0:23:01 GMT -5
Hi John, If you want to get ahold of a 300ZX Z32 PS pump, I've got one in a box, rebuilt with new gaskets, seals, and new input shaft bearing, ready to go. I would be happy to send it your way if you cover shipping on it. email me your address and I'll get it out Monday...
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Post by enginewhisperer on Apr 28, 2012 5:31:04 GMT -5
I've used power steering pumps too, also usually Nissan ones - driven with electric scooter motors with good success
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ashpowers
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Joined: February 2011
Posts: 207
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Post by ashpowers on Apr 28, 2012 6:50:50 GMT -5
LOL - I thought I was the only one who hacked an E-scooter motor for use with a pump! I used one of those motors and since they have such a large diameter, it provides for a nice large flange to attach to. I purchased a gear pump for a forklift, keyed the motor's shaft, and mated the pump right to the faceplate of the e-scooter motor. Never used it on a turbine - I use it frequently to pump tranny and differential lube into the cars. Thing will move a gallon in about 20 seconds! =) Only problem is you can't load it with a lot of pressure - I think the motor is only a 200W unit and it starts to struggle if you make it build pressure. There are a lot of compact gear pumps on ebay - search "gear pump" and you'll find lots of hits......
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Post by stoffe64 on May 1, 2012 2:14:52 GMT -5
hi there everyone!
i have actually stubled over a maybe suitable oilpump, search for PIUSI VISCOMAT 12v gear oil pumps. they come in different models with oil volumes up to 10 liters and pressures up to 5 bar, i think they might work,looks very solid and strong. cheers/ stephan
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Post by turbochris on May 1, 2012 14:46:53 GMT -5
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Post by Johansson on May 1, 2012 16:51:04 GMT -5
Good find there Stoffe! I started making the oil pressure regulator this evening, it will have a spring loaded valve that sets the oil pressure by bleeding oil back to the tank through a return line. A very simple and effective design, I assume most pressure regulators are built this way. Measuring the spring pressure to find a suitable one for the valve seat area. Since all performance shops are closed on may the first I had to make my own AN6 weld fittings, saves me a couple of bucks as well. Here the first AN6 fitting is in place, two more to make along with the threaded lid for the regulator body. Cheers! /Anders
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Post by racket on May 1, 2012 17:36:54 GMT -5
Hi Anders
Nice work :-)
Cheers John
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2012 20:13:24 GMT -5
yep all looks about right.... but if you want you will get very fine ajustment with tapper like that, more blunt will shut at a quicker rate, you could back the spring with Small Bore Diaphragm Cylinders . to load the spring using p2 pressure, so when engine picks up, the oil pressure dose. link below
ramhttp://www.marshbellofram.com/PCD/SmallBore.htm
at moment i am using one on right in pic, but have smaller on on left to fit
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Post by Johansson on May 2, 2012 0:20:03 GMT -5
Thanks John! yep all looks about right.... but if you want you will get very fine ajustment with tapper like that, more blunt will shut at a quicker rate, you could back the spring with Small Bore Diaphragm Cylinders . to load the spring using p2 pressure, so when engine picks up, the oil pressure dose. link below ramhttp://www.marshbellofram.com/PCD/SmallBore.htm at moment i am using one on right in pic, but have smaller on on left to fit That is a great idea, the problem for me is that I need full oil pressure during startup. When I tried starting the engine at a lower oil pressure than the normal 5kg the air impingment forced the turbine wheel to rub against the housing. I have no problems at all to spool the engine up with full oil pressure so in my case assisting the regulator spring load with P2 would only complicate things.
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