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Post by smithy1 on Feb 15, 2016 20:40:29 GMT -5
Hi Smithy LOL...........it took me what seemed like years to finally get the TV84s fuel system "tuned" . In the beginning I tried to keep it simple but eventually I just had to make a more complex controller that ended up working beautifully, but only after a lot of mods to get it "twist grip" friendly. Looking back on it, if I'd simply fitted the little hydraulic gear pump to a 24V scooter motor and used an off the shelf "electric" throttle, it would have been a lot easier , but they weren't available 20 years ago :-( Yep , fitting a second accumulator will certainly "broaden" the deceleration fuel supply , it might be all it'll need , hope so . Cheers John After seeing your bike run in person, it seemed as though it was running fine to me...but I was unaware of the issues you had with it back then...was quite a while ago now I think of it..! I have a larger volume accumulator assembly at home, maybe 2x the volume or similar, or I might try a dual setup...will see what fittings etc I have at my disposal. Most of the fuel controls I play with have a "Min Flow Stop" which is designed to help prevent flame out issues....there's one in particular which has a "Damped" min flow stop, the metering valve actually contacts the piston and is slowly allowed to hit the stop... I guess it's to avoid sudden stops/changes in decel flow. We live and learn..! Cheers, Smithy. |
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Post by enginewhisperer on Feb 15, 2016 20:46:47 GMT -5
Do you need help with anything? I have a nice big Transit Van. Only if you're really bored  Fortunately I'm only moving a few hundred metres up the road, so doing small loads with a box trailer is not too inefficient. The problem is that it's a smaller place so I have to get rid of a fair bit of stuff! |
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Post by smithy1 on Feb 15, 2016 21:04:19 GMT -5
Do you need help with anything? I have a nice big Transit Van. Only if you're really bored Fortunately I'm only moving a few hundred metres up the road, so doing small loads with a box trailer is not too inefficient. The problem is that it's a smaller place so I have to get rid of a fair bit of stuff! All good... be sure to give me a call if you need help at all though....I'm sure I can run away quite quickly if I need to  Smithy. |
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Post by enginewhisperer on Feb 16, 2016 0:27:53 GMT -5
thanks  it could be an opportunity for some kart testing at least |
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Post by smithy1 on Feb 16, 2016 1:38:11 GMT -5
thanks it could be an opportunity for some kart testing at least Ah...now you're speaking my language...!  Smithy. |
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Post by smithy1 on Feb 28, 2016 21:32:53 GMT -5
Hi All, Had another car show yesterday...only did two engine starts/runs...nothing too spectacular....but it sure is fun to play. I have a short video of my first run but it's very poor. It's nothing to look at really, just some noise and smoke etc..same old, same old. John, I did the first start using propane and she lit off as she usually does...no issues there and the engine spooled up per normal, I find that if I give progressive amounts of blower and fuel to try and "chase" the rpm up to self sustain, the temps stay nice and low-ish, I am seeing a max of ~700-720c during my starts now, so I'm more than happy with that. On the second run I thought I'd try a start without propane, (just for hits 'n giggles), to see if the kero igniter system works.....using the blower I spun the rotor up to ~1000rpm, just enough to get some air going through the flame tube, I have the fuel tap marked so I know when it starts to flow then just "cracked" the fuel tap, I nervously waited...it took just three cracks of the igniter before I heard the familiar sound of a light-off, no huge pop or bang....just a nice woooooof..! As soon as i knew she was lit I slowly gave her more blower whilst applying more fuel....was just the same as a normal propane start sequence....!! Am still getting a little flame out during deceleration, but it's not too bad....as long as I keep the igniter operating, she pops back into life. Here's a couple of pics from yesterday, As you can see, my contracted driver "Stuart" is happy enough:   Cheers, Smithy. |
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Post by racket on Feb 29, 2016 16:33:18 GMT -5
Hi Smithy
So no more LPG cylinders to cart around , excellent .
Karts looking good , "stuart" is all smiles ;-)
Cheers
John
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Post by smithy1 on Feb 29, 2016 17:13:05 GMT -5
Thanks John, I'll still take the propane with me...just in case, but it's nice to know she'll light-off on Jet-A1, I need to do some more testing of the kero start though. Yeah, she's looking ok....getting plenty of compliments from the punters too...I'm thinking of putting a small sticker on it somewhere with "Built by Racket" printed on it..! That'd be cool.  As far as I know she's a bit of a "one-off", I don't know of any others around Aus, I'm sure there are but I just don't know of them, I think Cameron in QLD had a small-ish turbo on a kart but I've not seen anything of it TBH and I don't know of any others..??  On a side note...I've found a couple of old "unserviceable" C20B/B17 "TRW-ARGOTECH" fuel pumps whilst going through our quarantine store, they've been there for probably 15 years or so, some broken, some with unknown problems etc...I might see if I can make a usable one out of all the parts. Then match it up to one of those electric motors similar to the one driving the oil pump. The pump's drive spline is very close to a 15mm 12point socket so I could possibly use one of them to drive it. These pumps are good for well over 1500psi and ~1600+lb-hr flow @ 3754rpm....can't see us needing all that though...if we did, there would be serious issues..!  At just 650rpm they can deliver well over 200lb-hr @ 140psi...so, (just thinking out loud here).. If I can spin it at ~1000rpm, that would give me plenty of supply & pressure, I can then by-pass the excess back to tank or the inlet side of the pump....and use the stock flowing C20B fuel nozzle. This should help greatly with the fueling issues. I'll need to beef up my fuel delivery system & lines to handle the extra pressure but that's the easy part. Might be a good project to do in the not too distant future. I'm wondering what sort of "wattage" electric motor I'll need to drive the pump, I dare say it may need something a tad larger than the oil pump motor.?? What thinks you..!? Cheers, Smithy. |
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Post by racket on Feb 29, 2016 18:49:20 GMT -5
Hi Smithy
Yep , a good high pressure fuel pump would be the way to go .
A "useful" formula for "hydraulic" power required ..........
Power ( Kw) = Bar X LPM
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600
Lets try 30 Bar and 3 LPM , looks like ~150 Watts , add on other "factors" and it'd still be possible to drive it with one of those cheap motors :-)
If you get a 36V motor and run it on 12V you should have ~900 rpm like the oil pump .
Certainly doable .
Cheers
John
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Post by smithy1 on Feb 29, 2016 19:45:42 GMT -5
OK...that's actually a bit less than I thought it would need..I'll aim for my normal ~30% "over-engineering", add a bit for luck and go for a 500watt jobbie, like this one: www.ebay.com.au/itm/36V-Electric-Motor-500W-Unite-Motor-For-EVO-Scooter-Extreme-MY1020-Tricycle-QQL-/331387283572?hash=item4d2838a874:g:W4MAAOSwkNZUbAZdThe pumps are sealed at the drive shaft end so there's no need for a drainage system like the oil pump requires. Should be fairly simple to setup etc...Now, it's just a matter of doing it..! I have a small 2" 500psi fluid filled gauge at home so I might get to use that too. The C20B engine has a max fuel flow stop of ~280lb-hr @ ~540psi....and the max governing flow is only ~230lb-hr...so I should easily be in the ballpark. The 6041 won't need anywhere near that much so it should... as you say, be "doable". Cheers, Smithy. |
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Post by smithy1 on Feb 29, 2016 20:03:24 GMT -5
Here's a couple of pics of the offending item:   Smithy. |
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Post by racket on Feb 29, 2016 20:20:53 GMT -5
Hi Smithy
Yep , thats the motor :-)
Nice pump , that should be easy to mount , just some sort of "flexible" coupling between the motor sprocket and the pump gear , doable for sure .
Cheers
John
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Post by smithy1 on Feb 29, 2016 20:43:36 GMT -5
Hi Smithy Yep , thats the motor :-) Nice pump , that should be easy to mount , just some sort of "flexible" coupling between the motor sprocket and the pump gear , doable for sure . Cheers John Yeah...I think I can manage that. Cheers, Smithy. |
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Post by smithy1 on Mar 1, 2016 19:43:56 GMT -5
Hi All, Was playing with the "cobbled together" fuel pump this morning at work, I had three different pumps in varying degrees of health, so I managed to put one together from the parts of the three...and then had a chance to give it a test run on my test rig....Seems to work fine. John, I'm getting plenty of flow and pressure so it looks as though it should be fine for our requirements. I capped the "by-pass" port as I probably won't be using it on the 6041 engine, I'll just run the FCU by-pass back to the tank for simplicity. @900rpm with zero inlet pressure it was giving ~290lb-hr @300psi outlet pressure, at 450psi it still delivers ~265lb-hr.... @ 2500rpm with zero inlet pressure and 500psi outlet, we're getting a healthy ~810lb-hr as can be seen in the below pics: Pump mounted to test rig:  Inlet pressure on left, outlet on right.  Flowmeter, both reading the same.  Digital RPM reading.  Overall view.  I've ordered some nice high pressure fittings and hose to take the place of the nylon tubing for the FCU and gauges etc... Cheers, Smithy. |
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Post by racket on Mar 1, 2016 21:04:58 GMT -5
Hi Smithy
Good numbers .
LOL..........if only my test stand looked that good :-)
This will be interesting .
Cheers
John
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