duncan
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Joined: December 2014
Posts: 68 
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Post by duncan on Nov 1, 2019 20:44:27 GMT -5
Darren, congrats on your restore. I have watched most of your videos on your j44, so cool to see how far you have come with your engine. I am new here but thought this was a good place to start, as I am going to look at a j44 this friday. A couple questions I have is where have you found parts engines, and what kind of inspection would you reccomend before buying. I'm not sure of the condition the one I'm looking at is in or what model it is, looks like maybe an r20, I'm also not sure to pay for it thanks for any help. Jason. btw here is a picture.  Hi Jason, thanks for the interest! It's a matter of research & 'luck' with these engines; it is best to try & get as complete of an engine as you can. Fuel system parts & components are critical, such as the fuel pump/governor, the acceleration limiter, etc. You can replace missing lines but you can't make the special stuff at home! The weak point in these engines is the turbine stator (or nozzle), which burns & erodes away if abused with too much heat or lots of hours. Take a good flashlight with you & look into the rear/exhaust end. Turn the turbine slowly as you shine the light on it & the stator vanes behind them (actually, in front, engine wise!), checking for cracks &/or flaking of the metal surfaces. If the cracks are more than 1/4" long, avoid unless the price is right. The rotating assembly should turn freely, with some drag, indicating it isn't bent or badly rusted. Check inside the front accessory drive gear box for signs of corrosion or water. Some J44s were used by the Navy & ended up in the sea! There are pics of badly rusted gears inside of some of these here on JATO!
I can't really see in your pic what is or isn't on the engine... you'll also need a starter or starter-generator to run it. If you can find one, great, otherwise you'll have to modify a 24V diesel engine starter or something! Do you plan on rebuilding it or just trying to get it running? If you can find a 'runner', that is the best way, so you only need to make a stand & then plumb & wire it up. A 'parts' motor without accessories will run $1,000-2,000 while a runner may be $4,000 - 6,000! You need a manual for them so you can study & know what to look for. The more you know, the more you know, you know? A guy named Paul used to live near Indy but moved to Wisconsin somewhere. He has some of these engines & parts around, as well as a copy of a J44-R-3 manual for sale. He is on eBay under "Pauls got Parts".
Good luck & stay in touch.
Darren
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duncan
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Joined: December 2014
Posts: 68
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Post by duncan on Nov 1, 2019 21:02:00 GMT -5
Hello Duncan, I purchasing my second J44 not to long ago,it a very nice and complete engine, and after a good cleaning it does not look to have every been started i can still see white paint markings on the turbine wheel if it was ran not very much and the oil tank looks to never had oil in it? My only problem is the older J44 used 2000psi air to start it and has a AC generator where the starter is bolted on the newer ones, do you or anyone here have any idea where a J44 starter could be found? watching your videos i see the starter mount is the same as the generator on mine. one more thing anyone know if a 3 phase 115v AC generator can be converted to a starter/generator. Thanks   Hi there, sorry for the delay in reply! Starters are hard to find for these but you could modify a diesel engine starter possibly. You will need a spline drive shaft to attach to your starter, so a trip to the airplane salvage yard my yield a shaft you can cut off & re-weld to a starter motor. Compressed air is not a bad way to start, as long as you have a place to refill your air tanks, such as a dive shop. You can buy used firefighter's air tanks & make a valve & hose to attach to your engine.
DD
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jasonr
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Joined: October 2019
Posts: 28
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Post by jasonr on Nov 3, 2019 20:37:52 GMT -5
Hi there, sorry for the delay in reply! Starters are hard to find for these but you could modify a diesel engine starter possibly. You will need a spline drive shaft to attach to your starter, so a trip to the airplane salvage yard my yield a shaft you can cut off & re-weld to a starter motor. Compressed air is not a bad way to start, as long as you have a place to refill your air tanks, such as a dive shop. You can buy used firefighter's air tanks & make a valve & hose to attach to your engine.
DD
Hi Darren, thanks for getting back to me. I was able to inspect the engine it is an R24 like yours so that is great,the GOOD: It has no corrosion on it the bearings feel great,the compressor and the case and nozzle are in excellent condition and he wants less than $700 for it. The CONS: it is missimng the starter and accessories, missing the excitor and excitor box, the turbine wheel has a couple chipped blades and it is missing the turbine nozzle guide vane assembly from what I can see. I don't know if I could sell the parts or not to make up the money as there is so much stuff missing I don't think I could ever get it running. Anyway I will see if I can find any parts online, I told him I would get back to him. Thanks Jason |
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duncan
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Joined: December 2014
Posts: 68
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Post by duncan on Nov 4, 2019 7:03:33 GMT -5
Hi Jason, yeah, if the stator/nozzle is good, that's something to consider but the turbine damage isn't good. If you can afford it, it would be a nice little parts engine. A working starter alone is worth more than $700 because they are hard to find! Keep your eye out for an accessory cowling that is 'bullet ' shaped for my J44; the -24 came with a flat cowl and I may want to change that. Many of these probably were damaged or destroyed by storage and handling mishaps.
Good luck with your search!
DD
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jasonr
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Joined: October 2019
Posts: 28
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Post by jasonr on Nov 4, 2019 7:42:13 GMT -5
Darren, I will keep a look out for the bullet shaped cowling for you.I am tempted to purchase the engine but with so much stuff missing your right it could be a good parts engine.I guess I will keep a look out for running engines or find missing parts as they come around. Jason
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jasonr
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Joined: October 2019
Posts: 28
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Post by jasonr on Nov 12, 2019 21:53:33 GMT -5
Darren if you could look at your starter and exciter and provide some information such as part number and manufacturer, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jason
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jasonr
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Joined: October 2019
Posts: 28
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Post by jasonr on Nov 28, 2019 20:07:31 GMT -5
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jasonr
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Joined: October 2019
Posts: 28
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Post by jasonr on Dec 1, 2019 15:51:47 GMT -5
I also have smaller jet engines that I fly rc jets with, thrust is 30-50lbs for most I have always loved jet engines so this site appeals to me. This one is a older ram1000 30lbs if thrust.  |
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duncan
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Joined: December 2014
Posts: 68
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Post by duncan on Dec 25, 2019 9:10:57 GMT -5
Hi Jason, again, sorry for the delay in replying and season's greetings! I see your pictures but not seeing the main fuel system component, the pump/governor unit! Hopefully you have everything you need, including the fuel filter and the fuel valve which feeds the fuel manifold! Send me some pix at dsd1960@gmail.com so I can see everything you have, including your manuals. I would try to obtain as many different J44 manuals as possible. Here are some sources: Thomson Aviation Manuals, where they have one for the -20B, which is closer to our engines (older) than the commonly available -3 manuals. I have both because Paul included a -3 manual with the engine. Also, try Essco Aero supply, which had some old tech school manuals that featured the J44 and has a few helpful tidbits. It has an orange cover. How is your starter doing? Did you get a tach generator to give a speed signal? It goes on the accessory drive, on the smallest mounting pad. Keep me posted!
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duncan
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Joined: December 2014
Posts: 68
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Post by duncan on Dec 25, 2019 10:22:37 GMT -5
OK, here are some pix of various fuel system & accessory components:
       
Some of these photos were taken before restoration so the components are not yet cleaned & painted!
DD
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duncan
Junior Member
Joined: December 2014
Posts: 68
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Post by duncan on Dec 25, 2019 13:13:22 GMT -5
"The J44 Project" UPDATE:
Hello all in JATO land! I have been updating my photos posted here & deleting the old 'Photo Bucket' links I had used in the past. I like the pix right on the JATO posts, as opposed to links that must be clicked-on! At this point, with the J44 running again, I am turning attention towards some changes & modifications that will (I hope) improve the operation of her. For example, using the original (tiny) igniter plug, the engine will not light-off using straight Jet A; I must add gasoline to about 20% mixture to get it to go. I have obtained a couple of different, larger electrode igniters that produce a much larger (& louder!) spark, using my same exciter. I also am changing some of the electrical system to provide a strong, steady, independent source of 28VDC power to the accessories (IE: boost pump, ignition system, fuel valve, etc.).
I am posting finished (up to this point) photos of her in various poses for your enjoyment!
Cheers!
DD
PS: The last several pix here are of a start, showing the torching flames that appear at light-off, which then recede back & disappear as the speed comes up to 31% RPM. This is something that can be reduced by ensuring a good power source for the starter, so it comes up to speed faster, reducing the torching time. Weak batteries will help damage your engine!
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duncan
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Joined: December 2014
Posts: 68
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Post by duncan on Dec 25, 2019 13:37:27 GMT -5
Here are my latest 3 videos posted on You Tube, showing the first runs since I got her back together:
First starts, complete with troubles due to 'low voltages' because of my aging batteries! Notice the added batteries using jumper cables, to boost the voltage during starts. That starter requires a shit-ton of amperage! I temporarily separated the accessories system from the battery/starter circuit, using my 28 VDC supply dedicated to the accessories, clearing the troubles for the time being.
Runs 6 & 7, including stand-mounted GoPro camera view (with the loud gas noises muffled)! You can hear internal sounds, such as gears, bearings & the lack of rotor vibrations. It is smoother & quieter than it used to be before restoration. Check out my old video, "Driveway Runs 3 & 4". which has the same camera mounted in the same spot, then compare the noises.
Runs 8 & 9, testing the 'new' igniter plug still using a Jet A-Gasoline mix. Includes good instrumentation (console) view. Watch what happens when Mark tosses a plastic pail into the exhaust gas path. We love physics!
PS: That fuel leak you saw on the bottom of the engine is fixed! The AN fitting was bad so we replaced the line.
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Post by jetjeff on Dec 25, 2019 17:24:21 GMT -5
Hi Darren,
Nice work, you should be proud.
Any future plans for this engine?
Regards
Jeff
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duncan
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Joined: December 2014
Posts: 68
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Post by duncan on Dec 25, 2019 20:58:22 GMT -5
Hey Jeff, it is a hobby project that will probably go on for a few years as I experiment and try to refine my work. I may let it go one day but for now it's a loveable antique turbojet engine that I am fond of. I would like to buy a small business jet engine some day to go through and get running but that will depend upon what happens between now and then. Thanks for your intrest and viewership.
DD
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jasonr
Member
Joined: October 2019
Posts: 28
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Post by jasonr on Jan 31, 2020 12:00:22 GMT -5
Hi Darren, well thanks for your help so far it's been very informative. My starter I found was a used and abused jayco that I sent in to have rebuilt buy some friends who own a shop, in breaking loose the shaft and bearings they cracked and twisted the housing "don't ask me how that happened" so they are going to try and weld the housing back together but doesn't look promising. I was able to source a spare engine that has the fuel control unit, tachometer, and the original ignition box, fuel lines and the air-starter. Fuel filter looks good but most everything else has some sort of corrosion, the previous owner didn't know much of anything about it except that its been sitting for awhile.I couldn't get a look at the turbine because they had a wooden cover inside that was sealed with silicone I guess to keep rodents out, I needed all the other stuff so I bought the engine and got it home and started disassembly of the exhaust cone got that off of there to look over the hot section and  . The entire turbine nozzle guide vane assembly disintegrated into the turbine. Well damn, I was hopeful to get a good hot section but the search continues, I have just about everything else for a running engine.
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. The entire turbine nozzle guide vane assembly disintegrated into the turbine. Well damn, I was hopeful to get a good hot section but the search continues, I have just about everything else for a running engine.