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Post by thescreensavers on Aug 27, 2015 23:24:43 GMT -5
Hello All, So I have to build a Turboshaft to run an alternator and have it completed by the last week of November for Senior Design(College) which means I am going to be busy the next few months 
Gas Producer:TD04B80 (REDLINE RPM = 150800RPM based on turbine wheel) S Trim Compressor Wheel1.904"(48.36mm) Inducer 2.75" (70mm) Exducer 0.68A/R 2.922"(74.2188mm) Inducer 2.296"(58.3184mm) Exducer
Plugging into Jetspec 5 Liner Dia (in) 6 Case Dia(in) 0.196 Area (ft2) 11.424 Length(in) 224.31 Liner Vol (in3) 0.194 Loading Value 12.678 Vref(ft/s) 2.8472 Total Hole Area (in 2)Current Parts List (Dropbox Link updated Live)
www.dropbox.com/s/joo95u21005x92u/Parts%20List.xlsx?dl=0 Feel Free to comment, very much a draft still missing some items as of the time of this posting. ------------------------------------------------------------- Combustor: 321 Stainless Steel ***I am using books/papers to better design my combustor, and get something better running than jetspec but I will use its numbers/stats for means of comparison. ϕ 0.7 to 1.0 For Axial Swirler No "Primaries" main air from Swirler Liner Cooler Holes Secondaries positioned ~1.5*Diameter from top. No Titrary Holes Fuel:
Diesel 100+PSI Stainless Steel Nozzle Oiling: Small Block Chevy Oil Pump 24v Scooter Motor Aiming for 45psi operating with a 15psi start up ramping up to full pressure. Oil Cooler Oil Filter 4qts Total System Capacity ( Walmart HDEO Oil Container sized  ) Electronics:Arduino Governed:Automated starting procedure Over Rev Protection Over Temperature Protection Oil Pressure Protection StartUp:
Electric Ducted Fan Check Valve Setup Free Power (I got this donated but will be holding off on it until I get my gas producer online, since its smaller will have to make a bypass most likely. ) Turbine Housing and Wheel from a HTP38r .85 A/R Weld off the wastegate. 3" (76.2mmm) Inducer 2.67"(67.73mm) Exducer Alternator Gearbox ------------------------------------------------------------- Turbine Wheel of the T04 anyone know what's the closest alloy?  |
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Post by Johansson on Aug 28, 2015 0:28:09 GMT -5
Welcome Mr Screensaver! You´ve got your days planned if you need the rig completed and running by the end of November, I´d say November next year would be a better deadline if you want to do things properly but it can probably be done. How will you feed the fuel spray nozzle to get a proper mist of fuel throughout the throttle range 15-45psi P2? Cheers! /Anders |
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Post by dangertomanifold on Aug 28, 2015 7:46:02 GMT -5
Have you considered you TIT? TITs are very important
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Post by Johansson on Aug 28, 2015 11:08:53 GMT -5
Have you considered you TIT? TITs are very important I agree, there should preferably be two of them. |
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rythmnbls
Veteran Member
Joined: August 2011
Posts: 145
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Post by rythmnbls on Aug 28, 2015 11:52:45 GMT -5
Looks pretty close to a generic 713C inconel composition. Steve. Anders, Agreed on the TIT's |
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Post by thescreensavers on Aug 28, 2015 17:58:54 GMT -5
Welcome Mr Screensaver! You´ve got your days planned if you need the rig completed and running by the end of November, I´d say November next year would be a better deadline if you want to do things properly but it can probably be done. How will you feed the fuel spray nozzle to get a proper mist of fuel throughout the throttle range 15-45psi P2? Cheers! /Anders Im hoping to have the combustor done and parts ordered in a 1 to 2 weeks, going to be interesting. Sorry the 15-45psi is oil pressure I have to also deal with temperature viscocity changes so I think ill set the pumps relief to my max psi so that I do not need to worry about that. Now Fueling is interesting so the issue is starting load fueling and then baseload fueling, it would seem people that have two injectors get huge flames out the turbine when they first switch to the bigger injector which is no good and or they use the big injector for start up which again puts too much fuel at the beginning. I have to run 100 PSI of fuel pressure to get the proper atomization not sure how much lower I can run, though I could run a much smaller nozzle and run it up much higher on PSI which would work very well. What do people use for 200+ psi of fuel pressure? Looks pretty close to a generic 713C inconel composition. Steve. Anders, Agreed on the TIT's Sweet that looks like it, now I know what my TITs can be |
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Post by Johansson on Aug 29, 2015 2:23:44 GMT -5
Im hoping to have the combustor done and parts ordered in a 1 to 2 weeks, going to be interesting. Sorry the 15-45psi is oil pressure I have to also deal with temperature viscocity changes so I think ill set the pumps relief to my max psi so that I do not need to worry about that. Now Fueling is interesting so the issue is starting load fueling and then baseload fueling, it would seem people that have two injectors get huge flames out the turbine when they first switch to the bigger injector which is no good and or they use the big injector for start up which again puts too much fuel at the beginning. I have to run 100 PSI of fuel pressure to get the proper atomization not sure how much lower I can run, though I could run a much smaller nozzle and run it up much higher on PSI which would work very well. What do people use for 200+ psi of fuel pressure? Is this a project that you will keep developing or do you have to "finish" it in a couple of months? The reason I ask is because I feel you are a bit too ambitious given the tight time schedule. I would suggest that you make a propane fuelled combustor according to Jetspecs for now, the teacher will be just as impressed and you will have a much better chance of getting it right the first time. Later when you have a running engine you can modify it for liquid fuel and whatnot. A crude and working gas turbine is more impressive than a very advanced one that won´t start... |
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Post by thescreensavers on Aug 29, 2015 14:16:38 GMT -5
Im hoping to have the combustor done and parts ordered in a 1 to 2 weeks, going to be interesting. Sorry the 15-45psi is oil pressure I have to also deal with temperature viscocity changes so I think ill set the pumps relief to my max psi so that I do not need to worry about that. Now Fueling is interesting so the issue is starting load fueling and then baseload fueling, it would seem people that have two injectors get huge flames out the turbine when they first switch to the bigger injector which is no good and or they use the big injector for start up which again puts too much fuel at the beginning. I have to run 100 PSI of fuel pressure to get the proper atomization not sure how much lower I can run, though I could run a much smaller nozzle and run it up much higher on PSI which would work very well. What do people use for 200+ psi of fuel pressure? Is this a project that you will keep developing or do you have to "finish" it in a couple of months? The reason I ask is because I feel you are a bit too ambitious given the tight time schedule. I would suggest that you make a propane fuelled combustor according to Jetspecs for now, the teacher will be just as impressed and you will have a much better chance of getting it right the first time. Later when you have a running engine you can modify it for liquid fuel and whatnot. A crude and working gas turbine is more impressive than a very advanced one that won´t start... Hah I should have started it sooner this is true, but my teacher does not want me to use jetspecs, this is a senior design project for college and he wants to see some math involved. Propane would simplify a few things for sure, I am revisiting this idea since it would bring down the cost a bit. But I have a friend locally that has built these before and with diesel as well as contacts with combustion experts so I could get it done. I figured with that and some expertise from this forum here I could get something that worked. This is something for me to finish in the couple of months I would use this as a learning experience so I could make my own in the future If I wanted to. The only thing keeping me from moving forward is the combustor its the only thing I am worried but its a large part of the project. |
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Post by racket on Aug 29, 2015 21:41:35 GMT -5
Hi Daniel
Mmmm, combustor calculations required , now thats not an easy one , a lot of the time its a case of if it looks right it is right .
For my original TV84 engine's combustor I used a Paper by A H Lefebvre and E R Norster.... The Design of Tubular Gas Turbine Combustion Chambers for Optimum Mixing Performance .
Cheers
John
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Post by thescreensavers on Aug 31, 2015 12:15:46 GMT -5
^ How did that equation from that paper work out for you? I have that paper and also I also have the book "Gas Turbine Combustion: Alternative Fuels and Emissions" which has the same formulas as that paper.
Working on comparing a few different design methods.
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Post by racket on Aug 31, 2015 20:24:11 GMT -5
Hi Daniel
LOL, it worked out OK for me , its a long time ago ( ~20 years) so can't remember a lot about what I did.
Cheers
John
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Post by thescreensavers on Oct 13, 2015 16:57:24 GMT -5
Update: Switched to propane for simplicity. 5.5" Outer Can OD 4.5" Inner Can OD 0.0359 Thickness 9x Stainless 10-32s for bolt rings. There is a Slip Ring fit at the bottom, I have increased the size of the ring to 0.25" thick. Axial Air Swirler Phi = 1.2 (23%) Secondary Holes Sized for Phi of 0.7 (16%) or 6x0.146" wanted 0.9 but holes were way too small. I put 5% cooling holes on the OD of the slip ring to cool the lower portion a bit.. Spark Plug has a 0.010" space gap in the liner to give it some cooling. The Dilution Holes are the remainder. 56% (0.756") Roughly 40 lbs of force is pushing down on the liner so I have added some brackets with some bosses to hole the liner. Also inside there are three standoffs to ensure roundness, I assumed 2000F for thermal expansion. The Top bolt ring has a cutout for the standoffs so I can remove the liner.  
Any Comments? |
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Post by racket on Oct 14, 2015 0:42:59 GMT -5
Looks good :-)
I'll be interested to see how the bulk of combustion air through a swirler will affect the flame
Cheers
John
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Post by smithy1 on Oct 14, 2015 15:20:34 GMT -5
Looks good :-) I'll be interested to see how the bulk of combustion air through a swirler will affect the flame Cheers John I'm thinking it'll help.....the Allison/Rolls-Royce C30 combustion liner has a similar setup. Cheers, Smithy. |
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Post by thescreensavers on Nov 2, 2015 23:36:51 GMT -5
Some updates, Got the parts waterjetted, sheet metal is being a PITA but got to get rough with it , machined out the axial swirler parts, and waterjetted the blades. Its all coming together I am hoping for first full test run of gas producer in 2 weeks.   |
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