hosedup
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Joined: October 2019
Posts: 68
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Post by hosedup on Nov 16, 2019 14:42:45 GMT -5
Both came off running equipment when removed. Got each for ~$50 so even if I need to replace a bearing or seal, I still think its a score. I was going to make 2 separate threads but then decided to but both here. Turbo one Im told it came from a Cat 3126 but google seems to be pointing me to a Cummins application Tag says Holset 3522950 I cant find any info on A/R. If anyone knows a way to look it up or has the info, please share. Inducer diameter: 55mm (opening is 95mm and funnels down to 55mm) Exducer diameter: 75mm Turbo two Im told it came from a Cat C15 :UPDATE: Found tag, 10R-1888 Compressor A/R 1.1 Inducer diameter 85mm Turbine A/R 1.6 Exducer (cant measure because down pipe still attached but estimate 95-100mm) Turbine A/R to compressor A/R ratio is just a hair under 50% larger. Which would make the best candidate? Both seems to be in decent shape, very little shaft play, blades intact, etc.
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Post by racket on Nov 16, 2019 15:50:53 GMT -5
Hi That top pic sorta indicate a turb exducer with a lot of clearance , it might have the wrong scroll housing on it . You'll need to pull the housings off to get a good look inside before deciding on anything . Checkout the "Catalogues" here www.turbomaster.info/eng/ , you might find your numbers Cheers John
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hosedup
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Joined: October 2019
Posts: 68
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Post by hosedup on Nov 16, 2019 17:00:32 GMT -5
Hi That top pic sorta indicate a turb exducer with a lot of clearance , it might have the wrong scroll housing on it . You'll need to pull the housings off to get a good look inside before deciding on anything . Checkout the "Catalogues" here www.turbomaster.info/eng/ , you might find your numbers Cheers John In case there is any confusion, this picture is of the Caterpillar turbo, looking through a still attached down pipe. I am currently soaking the bolts so I can remove it. The only pic in my first post that is of the Holset is the pic that shows a compressor with Holset cast in it. I spent a bit of time researching this turbo and all I can come up with is it crosses to Garrett GTA5518B. I find nothing on that part number except it crosses back to the OEM number 10R-1888. I know this is not very scientific, but looking at pics of this unit in google, I find that the exducer diameter is dead on tangent to the center of the bolts. If I measure the bolts center to center, I get 102mm, so I estimate the exducer is 100mm.
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Post by racket on Nov 16, 2019 18:05:16 GMT -5
Hi
If its a Cat turbo then you won't find info anywhere.
The reason I mentioned the exducer clearance , which appears to be >3 mm radially , is that I was once supplied with a replacement scroll housing for my Garrett TV84, which upon installation, made for hard spoolup and hot running of the engine , it was found on stripdown that the scroll was wrong and had the same sort of clearances yours has , clearances weren't checked on assembly as the scroll came from my usual supplier/overhaul specialist who was familiar with my turbo .
Cheers John
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hosedup
Junior Member
Joined: October 2019
Posts: 68
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Post by hosedup on Nov 16, 2019 18:46:24 GMT -5
Yeah it's a cat. I found the metal tag with part and serial numbers. I hope to get the down pipe off some time tomorrow.
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Post by turboron on Nov 16, 2019 19:01:47 GMT -5
hosedup, my experience with removing turbine scrolls is that simply soaking the bolts is not enough to loosen them. My practice is to heat the bolts with a propane torch until they are near red hot and then let them cool to room temperature. Repeat this procedure two more times. I also use a tear dropper with water on the hot bolts. Once the bolts are loose I hang the turbo from a chain hoist by the compressor housing and heat the turbine scroll. Once the scroll is heated hammer the scroll with a punch close to the bearing housing. Screw the bolts out until they meet the housing and then using them as jack bolts also helps. Good luck.
Thanks, Ron
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Post by finiteparts on Nov 16, 2019 20:29:36 GMT -5
That GTA5518 turbo would have been the better choice, but it looks to be damaged. The compressor wheel looks like it has a few damaged blades and as John pointed out, the turbine has rubbed and opened up the tip clearances. Likely, the compressor wheel damage caused the rotor to run out of balance long enough to rub out the turbine wheel. That turbo is not usable in its current condition.
If you can find a new or rebuilt center-section, I would go with that turbo. The primary reason is that you get a large frame Garrett turbocharger for fairly cheap. It has a round turbine inlet that makes attaching the combustor nice and easy. The exhaust flange is a nice bolt on style that makes attaching a well sealed afterburner easy too. The downside is that the low pressure turbo that you have there weights something like 80 lbms, with the cast iron compressor housing.
I have a set of ACERT C15 series turbos (high pressure and low pressure) that I searched out in order to have a set of the ball bearing ones that Garrett and CAT introduced. They have since also made a journal bearing version, which it looks like what you have. One day, I want to build a two stage turbine engine with them. It's on the project list...maybe one day soon....hummmm....
I have a few papers on series turboochargers on the CAT C13 and C15 that I will poke around through to see if they give any insight into any compressor or turbine maps.
Good luck!
Chris
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ausjet
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 133
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Post by ausjet on Nov 16, 2019 20:36:35 GMT -5
The cat turbo you have is a reman 232-1805. It’s the low pressure turbo off a compound setup on an ACERT C15 on highway truck engine. Oops, just read the above post by Chris. So what he said 😂
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hosedup
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Joined: October 2019
Posts: 68
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Post by hosedup on Nov 16, 2019 22:53:35 GMT -5
Ron, Chris, ausjet, thank you for the info. I had no idea the Cat turbo I have came from a sequential setup. Also, thanks for the disassembly tips.
Its starting to sound like the Holset unit is the direction ill go. I just wish I knew the A/R for the compressor and turbine, cant find it anywhere online or on the unit itself.
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Post by turboron on Nov 17, 2019 7:46:08 GMT -5
hosedup, you can approximate the A/R by measuring the volute/scroll area and the radius to the center of the area. The method is to attach a piece of stiff cardboard to a bolt or threaded rod of suitable length. Trim the cardboard to turbine flange opening for starters. Then trim the cardboard more and more as you insert it further into the volute until you reach the tangent point(throat) of the volute. Then measure the area of the cardboard and obtain an approximate radius of the tangent point of the throat. Now you have the numbers to calculate A/R. Good luck.
Thanks, Ron
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dieselguy86
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Joined: September 2014
Posts: 186
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Post by dieselguy86 on Nov 17, 2019 8:08:14 GMT -5
Holset doesn't use a/r, they use something different. Like a 19cm, 22cm etc, they should have it cast on the housing somewhere.
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hosedup
Junior Member
Joined: October 2019
Posts: 68
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Post by hosedup on Nov 17, 2019 10:38:57 GMT -5
Holset doesn't use a/r, they use something different. Like a 19cm, 22cm etc, they should have it cast on the housing somewhere. Didn't know that, thanks. Here are 2 sets of numbers in the castings. Compressor looks like G space 12. Turbine looks like 6604439 space SG next line 22 space 41956 space 3W. So if the compressor was a 12 and turbine was a 22, does that pass a sanity check?
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Post by racket on Nov 17, 2019 15:25:00 GMT -5
As long as the turb wheel exducer area is 50% bigger than the comp wheel inducer , the engine should work irrespective of the scroll A/Rs
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hosedup
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Joined: October 2019
Posts: 68
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Post by hosedup on Nov 18, 2019 6:55:29 GMT -5
I think I'm going to go with the Holset turbo. It's got a 55mm inducer and 75mm exducer.
If my math is correct: Inducer area 2375 sq mm, exducer area 4417 sq mm.
By diameter, exducer is ~37% larger. By area, exducer is ~85% larger.
If I remember correctly, I saw in a forum post that the minimum size difference was 50% by area so it looks like I have that covered.
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Post by racket on Nov 18, 2019 15:49:51 GMT -5
You might find that the comp will be able to flow over in the choke side of the map with an excessively large turbine wheel , it'll depend on the scroll , as long as the scroll isn't "fat" you'll be OK , simply comparing the comp and turb scroll size/shape will give a reasonable indication , the turb scroll needs to be a bit "larger" than the comp but still have similar "shape" .
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