100shp bike

[racket]

Hi Joe

The 21G syringes I used were 0.55mm bore , pretty close to your size .

I've also looked at brass home garden irrigation fan sprays , very similar to yours. sunshoweronline.com.au/irrigation/micro-irrigation/micro-sprays/brass-border-jet-half-circle-12?gclid=CjwKCAjw8cCGBhB6EiwAgORey0puDBw_NZORPbIRqEgEgxSfFe7zlUsPTjialJOxGJU45NqKhJaYQhoCp5QQAvD_BwE

Cheers
John

[dieselguy86]

John,

Yep, .024" vs your .0216", I wouldn't mind if they were closer to 020 since mine will be in a smaller engine. Flow rate test will tell me if they'll work or not.

Roughly what angle do your injectors spray at into your cc? I'm assuming close to 90° and as close to the front wall as possible in order to get the mixing done early?

-Joe

[racket]

Hi Joe

Maybe 10-20 degrees angle which isn't a problem as they'll overlap each other

Cheers
John

[madpatty]

Jun 21, 2021 18:50:46 GMT -5 dieselguy86 said:

Looks like #73 drill bit, so .024" hole. not sure the hole size on the "racketjectors"?

Also I took the injector apart, it's 1/8"npt, and has a nice screen to keep crud out of the hole. I think this could be a very viable injector. The mass of it should make it pretty sturdy for the job as well. 

Hi Joe.
It would be interesting to see this nozzle as a viable injector.
There are Stainless versions also available out there just in case you wanna use a similar thing.
I myself want to get rid of these flimsy needles from my engines and am on a lookout for a suitable fuel nozzle for our engines with annular combustors.

Cheers.
Patty

[dieselguy86]

Hi Patty,

John's link made me get curious and started looking at similar nozzles here in the states. I found and ordered one of these to test, was only $7. www.aeromist.com/misting-nozzles/high-pressure-anti-drip-misting-nozzle-012-x-10-24.html

.028gpm at 1,000psi, stainless body, and has internal check valve. I'm not sure if fuel can be "too atomized" or not. .012" is a small hole, also not sure of spray pattern. I'm assuming it's probably a wide angle, but maybe with such a fine atomization, the air flow can help "localize" it?

Here's the pump I could use with that nozzle
magomhrc.com/en/hr7-hydraulic-pump/993-hydraulic-pump-mg-hr7-without-brushless-motor.html
What I like about that is I can use a ready made "servo tester" to control the rpms, with a "trim" function to act as an idle setting, and even a servo speed controller to control accel/deccel.

-Joe

[madpatty]

Hi Joe.

I am sure we can use spray nozzles in annular combustors.
SR-30 educational jet engine uses 'I think' 6 spray nozzles and its a smaller engine than what you are targeting.
I am not able to add the picture but here's the link to their website-
www.turbinetechnologies.com/educational-lab-products/turbojet-engine-lab
You can see their engine's cut away.

I think no one wants added complexity over the proven EVAP design but again getting away with using a spray nozzles will be better than getting those flimsy needles blocked or broken off every now or then. Brazing those needles is another pain.

I like more "industrial" design where you just replace the part(nozzle) if it stops working due to some reason. I think all the R&D that has been put into the RC turbines, the fuel manifold and vaporizer tubes is the only thing that has been left behind.

Regards.
Patty

[dieselguy86]

Hi Patty,

I don't have any issues with using needles and evap system, but since the engine will be going into a daily drivable motorcycle, I want it to have quick starting, and an "easy" start sequence so anyone will be able to get on and ride it.

I honestly feel like a direct injection system is less complicated than an evap system overall. I'm hoping in the coming years to develop my own rc turbine, but I definitely need more experience under my belt, and someone with a fatter checkbook.

-Joe

[racket]

Hi Patty

Thanks for the Link to that engine :-)

Yep , the syringe needles are a "compromise" , very lightweight and available cheaply compared to any other device, but delicate , I'm thinking of perhaps getting some thicker capillary tubing and making my own injectors , but because of the required large number and the need for pressure to produce atomisation its impossible to get away from fine flow passageways even if using spray nozzles :-(

The SR-30 with a smaller number of injectors can use "larger" injectors , but it needs a longer flametube ............compromises again .

Cheers
John

[dieselguy86]

John,

I'm coming up with 10.7 injectors to deliver 18gph @.028gpm/ea. I'm thinking of making it an even 12 so that I'm not maxed out trying to get to 100% rpm.

Do think there would be issues trying to keep leaks sealed up when pushing close to 1,000psi? Outside the engine can be handled with AN/jic hydraulic fittings, but its inside im thinking about, I have a plan but I wanted to see if you had any experience with fuel pressures that high.

- Joe

[racket]

Hi Joe

I was using pressures up to ~1,300 psi on my TV84 engine , but dropped back to ~750 psi as that produced enough flow range for reasonable idling atomisation .

Once we start getting to 1,000psi the flow vs pressure line starts to flatten out as the "square root" in the equations start to take over www.imagebam.com/image/1bff15655398193

Cheers
John

[dieselguy86]

Evening all,

Been thinking on the fuel system, I want to keep it simple, but it also needs to be convenient when it's in the bike. I'm thinking fuel pump will be engine driven like the oil and alternator, instead of trying to control what the pump does like others, im thinking of using a pwm proportional relief valve like this www.tlxtech.com/solutions/proportional-pressure-relief-valve

I can gear it to drive the pump slightly harder than required so that I have excess pressure available to throttle up. The bleed will control what pressure/ flow gets to the nozzle to be burned, while the rest gets returned back to the tank.

I realize making the ancillaries engine driven isn't "keeping it simple" but I really want to keep the electric driven stuff and it's gremlins to a minimum.
All the engine testing will be done with seperate systems like normal, just trying to think ahead.

Other options are a mechanical cable operated unit that is bulkier, or brushless motor powered pump.

-joe

[racket]

Hi Joe

Thats why I went with an APU on my bike , the battery was for the spark ...............in some ways it wasn't a bad idea , the APU fuel tank was plenty big enough to last as long as the main engine's fuel tank .

You might need to think backwards from just how long your main fuel tank will last in determining the ancillory drive power requirements .

Cheers
John

[dieselguy86]

Hi John,

I know what your saying, I'm hoping to find room for 15gal for an hours worth of cruising. With bike shows, cruising with friends etc, I'd like to not be limited by battery life.

It's my goal to work towards to, definitely not worried about designing the drive system at the moment. My current idea is a single 20:1 redux, then I'll just use a belt and different pulleys to reduce each component to its respective operating range.

I have an alternator off an isuzu that also has a vacuum pump that I'm hoping can double as a scavenge pump. The fuel pump is a stackable hydraulic pump that I'm hoping I can stack the oil pump onto it as well. All just ideas in my head at the moment. Still waiting to hear back from yili on my 84mm turbine

-Joe

[pitciblackscotland]

Jun 26, 2021 21:41:17 GMT -5 dieselguy86 said:

Hi John,

I know what your saying, I'm hoping to find room for 15gal for an hours worth of cruising. With bike shows, cruising with friends etc, I'd like to not be limited by battery life.

It's my goal to work towards to, definitely not worried about designing the drive system at the moment. My current idea is a single 20:1 redux, then I'll just use a belt and different pulleys to reduce each component to its respective operating range.

I have an alternator off an isuzu that also has a vacuum pump that I'm hoping can double as a scavenge pump. The fuel pump is a stackable hydraulic pump that I'm hoping I can stack the oil pump onto it as well. All just ideas in my head at the moment. Still waiting to hear back from yili on my 84mm turbine

-Joe

Hi Joe,
How big is your bike frame 15gal of fuel you going to need a lot of room to fit a tank or tanks on a bike frame. As for a APU i am using a 2.5 hp engine on my trike build, i have plenty of room, using a 50 amp alternator nice small size and may fit a twin pulley on it to maybe run my twin VW scavenge pump. I will try out out a oil heat exchanger using electric water pump or mechanical water pump running off the apu. I also have 115 volt generator that i can run off the apu to power the cooling fan and oil pump for the gearbox.

www.ebay.com.au/itm/264096979801 www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1745.htm

Cheers ,
Mark.

[racket]

Hi Joe

15 gallons is a lotta fuel , some "creative" tankage required :-)

Yep , 20:1 with a bit of "adjustment " should be good .

Ah, Yili , I hope you have better luck with them than I've had , their "speed ??" of reply can stretch into months.

Cheers
John