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Post by smithy1 on Jun 1, 2015 20:19:39 GMT -5
Racket wrote:
"Hi Smithy
LOL, "organ re-arrangement" , yep, an apt description of the forces involved.............yeh, video doesn't produce the "feel"
A tad more P2 and those TOTs will be right where you want them at ~720-740 C ( 900 C for the T I T ) , though they could go another 100 C higher with relative safety for a short period ;-)
Heh heh , get back to your own thread and tell me about the A/B fueling as it is now ...........you know I love specs :-)
Cheers John" ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Well...what I did was this...Along with the new pipe dimensions.... I sorta did a few modifications to the spray ring to help atomize the exiting fuel, I figured your 1.0mm holes were a tad large for that so I inserted/twisted some 0.020" stainless lockwire into each hole to basically reduce their area by ~half, I kept the same fuel flow via the two 044 parallel Bosch fuel pumps but the pressure to the spray ring has obviously increased, was using ~35-40psi but now is up to a tad over 60psi at the same "tap" opening. I have an adjustable flow control at the outlet of the A/B pumps so I can adjust flows/pressures to suit the conditions.
I'm not sure what the exact pressure is at the spray ring as the pressure is taken a fair way upstream of there but at a guess I'd say ~57psi-ish. I also have the spray ring essentially backwards facing the turbine wheel, some of the holes are at 45degrees outwards to the axis so it should give a nice even-ish spray around and back towards the flame holder which is ~3" downstream of the spray ring and ~2" downstream of where the divergent section of the pipe starts, I have the supplementary ignition source, (sparkplug) ~3" downstream of the flame holder. Also have the hot streak available if required but thus far it seems to light off nicely without it.
Then I made some major mods to the flame holder assembly, your "Y" section item now acts as a support and sports two concentric deflectors, one ~5"dia, the other ~2 1/2"dia...I've "fluted" the outer edges of the outer deflector to disturb the air as much as possible....this seems to have done the trick with a nice blue flame at ~28psi P2 and above....any less than that and most of it appears to burn outside the pipe. I also have a pair of auxilliary fuel injectors at the rear section of the straight pipe....just for low rpm flame shows..! Oil cooler and plumbing is all fitted and sorted, after a few runs on the weekend I only saw ~70-75C on the oil temp gauge...so it also seems to work well. I do have a small oil leak at one of the fittings going to the cooler/radiator but it's nothing to really worry about...just a small drop after each run is all, a quick wipe with a rag and it's gone, the fittings are only aluminium so I don't want to over-tighten them.
Next time I run I will definitely open up the throttle a bit...will do the first run at the normal 35psi P2 just to make sure it's all running as it should....then I'll open her up to ~38psi, if it's all good then I'll do another run at 40psi and see if she's still happy....and if the throttle adjustment allows...I'll give her the full 42psi....! She should make some decent noise then..! Then it's just a matter of adjusting the A/B fuel flows/pressures to suit the increased P2 and all should be good with the world.
Cheers, Smithy.
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Post by pitciblackscotland on Jun 1, 2015 23:59:18 GMT -5
Hi Brett, Thanks for that explaining the mods you did to the AB. Are you using fans for the oil cooler Cheers, Mark.
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Post by racket on Jun 2, 2015 1:52:58 GMT -5
Hi Smithy Now thats what I want to hear Heh heh , I'll be wanting a copy of the design when the 12/118 engine needs its A/B . Knowing how well your little engine's A/B performs , I can only imaging what several sizes bigger is now sounding like ..............awesome There might not be much of a mass flow increase at the higher P2s so hopefully the gas producer pump will handle it comfortably, but there should be more of a crackle from the A/B , I remember my "pure jet" experiments with the "little" TV84 and how there was quite a difference once over the 40psi mark , LOL............you're flowing 50% more air and with a bit of reheat ..........it'll be getting a tad noisy . Thanks for the update Cheers John
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Post by smithy1 on Jun 2, 2015 16:10:06 GMT -5
Hi Brett, Thanks for that explaining the mods you did to the AB. Are you using fans for the oil cooler Cheers, Mark. Hi Mark, I do have a pair of fans for the cooler but at this stage I haven't fitted them, they're just a pair of 12v 12cm PC case fans (still in their packaging too). The few runs I have done with the new cooler fitted has shown the fans may not be needed. The cooler has a 7 row element. When I fit the larger ~20L fuel tank I may need to fit a fan/fans due to the longer run times but at present the oil temp is well within what I would consider normal range. On the weekend just gone I did a couple of static engine runs and the oil temp didn't get above 70c, admittedly is was a cool day but even at an oil temp of 80c it would still be fine and I'd be more than happy with it. Previous to fitting the cooler, I was a bit worried about the oil temp, when I did three or four runs with just a few mins between to refuel, the oil tank was "Very" hot to the touch....I "guesstimated" something in the 110-120c range and the oil pressure was getting low-ish @~45psi. When cold the oil pressure is always above 65psi. Now when running, the oil pressure never goes below 55psi even after a couple of runs...much happier with that. I'm a bit anal about oil pressure and oil temp, last thing I want is for the bearings to be damaged or fail because of something I could have done to prevent it. I'm using fully synthetic Nulon 10/40, Nulon is a highly regarded Australian company and I've used their oil products for years, very happy with their lube products thus far. I always do a full cool down sequence on the engine after a run to help prevent oil carbonisation from residual turbine wheel/shaft temp. I pull the EGT down to under 100c using the starter/blower prior to oil pump shutdown. Hopefully this is the right thing to do.. Cheers, Smithy.
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Post by smithy1 on Jun 2, 2015 16:39:45 GMT -5
Hi Smithy Now thats what I want to hear Heh heh , I'll be wanting a copy of the design when the 12/118 engine needs its A/B . Knowing how well your little engine's A/B performs , I can only imaging what several sizes bigger is now sounding like ..............awesome There might not be much of a mass flow increase at the higher P2s so hopefully the gas producer pump will handle it comfortably, but there should be more of a crackle from the A/B , I remember my "pure jet" experiments with the "little" TV84 and how there was quite a difference once over the 40psi mark , LOL............you're flowing 50% more air and with a bit of reheat ..........it'll be getting a tad noisy . Thanks for the update Cheers John Thanks John....I'm glad you're happy with what I'm doing/done thus far, your work has not been in vain and is being put to good use. You're right though, there's plenty of "Crackle" happening even at just 35psi P2.....I can't wait to sample some 40psi plus noise. A "tad noisey" is a bit of an understatement methinks. I don't get the full hit though as I'm normally sitting in front of the noise.. and wearing earmuffs...and it's still noisy..! The people watching keep reminding me of how loud it is....all they usually say is "it's about time someone made some real noise at a car show".... I do get the odd complaint from some tree hugging do-gooder morons though...."look at all the fuel you're wasting and the noise pollution you're making".....All I tell them is "if you don't like it don't watch"....simple. Why do people go to car shows, speedway or drag racing meets and complain about the noise? The organisers get me there to do just that, make noise, fire, smoke, corruption etc....I'm happy to oblige. I've made some modifications to the little dragster too....and you thought it was ok back when I had the 30lbf engine in it...it now sports a highly modified Kingtech K180G @40lbf turbine....add to that a suitably sized A/B system.....it'll easily push itself and the table it lives on along the ground without a problem....measured thrust with reheat is ~24.5kg @20c...a tad under 54lbf, that's just over 34% thrust increase with reheat....considering the car itself weighs just 12.5kg...I'm more than happy with that. She ain't real efficient though...that 34% increase in thrust costs ~500% more in fuel compared to what the engine itself uses.... All good fun though..! If I wasn't doing this turbine stuff I'd be a fat lazy slob with nothing to show for my time. Even my 22yo Son Jake is happy to come along and help out at my shows now. Cheers, Smithy.
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Post by racket on Jun 3, 2015 1:22:22 GMT -5
Hi Smithy LOL, more than happy with what you've achieved with her , I was always confident you were the only man for the job of getting the 6041 to "perform" I'd never have been able to achieve what you have ..............she went to the right home . Has Jake had a ride in her yet ?? 54 lbs in the little dragster , you'll have fun controlling her at full speed ..................any more speed trials ?? Cheers John
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Post by pitciblackscotland on Jun 3, 2015 2:22:07 GMT -5
Hi Brett, Thanks for that explaining the mods you did to the AB. Are you using fans for the oil cooler Cheers, Mark. Hi Mark, I do have a pair of fans for the cooler but at this stage I haven't fitted them, they're just a pair of 12v 12cm PC case fans (still in their packaging too). The few runs I have done with the new cooler fitted has shown the fans may not be needed. The cooler has a 7 row element. When I fit the larger ~20L fuel tank I may need to fit a fan/fans due to the longer run times but at present the oil temp is well within what I would consider normal range. On the weekend just gone I did a couple of static engine runs and the oil temp didn't get above 70c, admittedly is was a cool day but even at an oil temp of 80c it would still be fine and I'd be more than happy with it. Previous to fitting the cooler, I was a bit worried about the oil temp, when I did three or four runs with just a few mins between to refuel, the oil tank was "Very" hot to the touch....I "guesstimated" something in the 110-120c range and the oil pressure was getting low-ish @~45psi. When cold the oil pressure is always above 65psi. Now when running, the oil pressure never goes below 55psi even after a couple of runs...much happier with that. I'm a bit anal about oil pressure and oil temp, last thing I want is for the bearings to be damaged or fail because of something I could have done to prevent it. I'm using fully synthetic Nulon 10/40, Nulon is a highly regarded Australian company and I've used their oil products for years, very happy with their lube products thus far. I always do a full cool down sequence on the engine after a run to help prevent oil carbonisation from residual turbine wheel/shaft temp. I pull the EGT down to under 100c using the starter/blower prior to oil pump shutdown. Hopefully this is the right thing to do.. Cheers, Smithy. Hi Brett, some good info there thanks mate I think i might use fully synthetic oil for the T30 and i was thinking to get one of these 12V oil pan heaters www.ebay.com.au/itm/Engine-Heater-Oil-Pan-Heater-Tank-Heater-Pad-Heater-80-Watt-12-Volt-DC-ProHeat-/370096842495?hash=item562b7da6ff for cold starts I got one of these AIR BLOWERS www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-270CFM-IN-LINE-BOAT-BILGE-AIR-BLOWER-SUIT-4-HOSE-Boat-Marine-Caravan-Inline-/310795412035?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item485cd9a243 for the alternator they move a lot of air, if i had the room i would fit two of them for my oil cooler in the mower Might be a good idea to use them for the Green Beast Cheers, Mark.
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Post by smithy1 on Jun 3, 2015 3:48:49 GMT -5
Thanks Mark, Those "flow through blowers" look ok. TBH I don't have any "cold start" issues due to the 6041 having a thrust plate which has equal oil pressure on both sides, even at 70psi oil pressure the rotor spins very easily....so pre-heating the oil is a moot point for me. Here's a couple of pics of the "Beast"..... oil cooler and some other bits as it is today: The 7 row oil cooler. Also visible is the right side thermocouple, A/B igniter spark plug, right side auxiliary fuel feed, oil pump, filter and "hobbs" switch.
Oil pump, sandwich plate, filter/pump adapter with temp sensor, hoses, turbo oil feed line... The tacho wires are visible in the inlet housing...works well if not in direct sunlight. Looking from left rear, in the foreground is the auxiliary "flame show" fuel feed. Left side thermocouple, ignition modules just above tyre, oil tank under turbo with oil tank breather and catch tank above. Dash, a bit messy but it's easy to read and functional. Large red button on steering wheel is A/B, small red button is hot streak. Tacho mounted in middle of steering wheel, battery operated. Redundant twin EGT gauge under steering wheel. Blue switch is oil pump activation, just to the left of the fuel pressure gauge (on the right) is the fuel pump activation switch (obscured). Cheers, Smithy.
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Post by pitciblackscotland on Jun 3, 2015 5:31:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the photos Brett I think i will make up a heat shield for the hot section as well, things are getting a wee bit compacted Cheers, Mark.
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Post by smithy1 on Jun 3, 2015 14:35:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the photos Brett I think i will make up a heat shield for the hot section as well, things are getting a wee bit compacted Cheers, Mark. I must apologise Mark....I'm sure I promised to post up some pics some time back.....unfortunately life got in the way and I then completely forgot, I think Alzheimer's is setting in... Now...where's my spoon..? Yeah....I think a heat shield around the turbine housing is a must have if there are temperature sensitive items nearby....I suspect it saves a bit of grief down the track. I've actually been looking for a turbine "blanket" for the 6041...not having much luck finding one though....even the smaller ones are very expensive. Cheers, Smithy.
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Post by pitciblackscotland on Jun 3, 2015 15:12:03 GMT -5
Hi Brett, That's ok been working 10 hours shifts so i have slowed down on the mower build at the moment, but at lest will have some toy money There should be some heat blankets on e bay that you can cut to size ? I'll have a look around. Cheers, Mark.
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Post by racket on Jun 8, 2015 1:04:16 GMT -5
Hi Mark
LOL, back in Jan 1999 I did a heat blanket test for some guys at the turbo shop using the TV84 in "Frank" , heh heh , she was running so hot it burnt the stitching material leaving just the metal threads , the blanket was on fire with 30mm flames coming off it, along with heaps of acrid smoke .
I found that the blanket needed to be a very loose fit initially as it appeared to shrink once "heat treated" , also the scroll expands by several millimetres and if the blanket is fitted tightly, it ends up getting very tight around the "equator" of the scroll once up to temperature .
Cooldown times were also extended significantly due to the "insulation" .
Cheers John
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Post by smithy1 on Jun 16, 2015 15:21:21 GMT -5
Hi All, Just a small update....I'm planning on fitting two small 12v-11ah motorcycle batteries, (in parallel), to replace the rather large car battery fitted to the "beast"...the main reason is for convenience and to allow fitment of the front fairing...the original battery was just too high to allow the fairing to fit correctly....so two smaller batteries should do the job nicely.
Also going to "idiot proof" my A/B ignition system....along with the hot streak, I'm fitting "twin" igniters just downstream of the flame holder. This should all but eliminate some of the erratic light-offs I've been experiencing of late...TBH...the single igniter was working well but as usual...I just can't help myself.. :-)
Cheers, Smithy.
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turbomarc
Junior Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 56
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Post by turbomarc on Jun 16, 2015 15:38:36 GMT -5
Hi All, Just a small update....I'm planning on fitting two small 12v-11ah motorcycle batteries, (in parallel), to replace the rather large car battery fitted to the "beast"...the main reason is for convenience and to allow fitment of the front fairing...the original battery was just too high to allow the fairing to fit correctly....so two smaller batteries should do the job nicely. Not only that, should be a significant weight loss as well, but I noticed you had some turnigy lipo batteries already on it, would you be able to use them or would it be too much mucking about to make it all blend??
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Post by racket on Jun 16, 2015 16:49:22 GMT -5
Hi Smithy
LOL............perfectly understandable , its nice when a build gets to such a stage that we're looking to make those minor adjustments :-)
Cheers John
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