Mountains

[stevep]

[Quoting Anders from my rocket motor thread.....]

We had a wonderful day at the mountain hike, it was a bit wet for my spiked winter running shoes but as long as you keep moving it doesen´t matter if they are soaked. I am about to sign up for a really tough mountain run next summer, 27km and a total elevation of 1150m makes for a real challenge.

[stevep]

Hey Anders,

It doesn't look like that's the sort of thing one jumps up off the couch and just does--I gather (since you mention winter running shoes) that you run quite a bit and will be training through the winter for this thing....

I've run some marathons, though never on mountain trails, so I can imagine that 27km over that trail will indeed be quite challenging.

I looked up Ottsjo on the map--bloody far north!

Here are some mountains in California--photo taken from about 12,000' (3650 meters):


--Steve

[Johansson]

Hi Steve,

It will be one hell of a race, I have been running for 2.5 years and have pulled off the sub-40 on 10km and sub-90 on the half marathon so it will be very fun to leave the tarmac and head up the slopes.

I´ve never tried a marathon yet though but I probably will in a year or two, how many have you done?

Wow, really nice view from that mountaintop! It looks a bit hot to run there though...

I payed the entry fee for the race 10 minutes ago, there are still lots of place left in case you are interested.

Cheers!
/Anders

[stevep]

I thought I read a comment of yours (maybe during the world cup?) to the effect that you had no interest in sports other than ones involving laying rubber down a 400m stretch of asphalt :-)

Sub 40 10K is pretty darned good for only a couple of years of running. You must be one of those super-fit Swedes we keep hearing about over here :-) I ran about a dozen marathons, but I'm much more suited to shorter distances like 1500m. Still, training for the marathon during the winter gave me a huge advantage for the shorter races during the summer.

The mountains here get very dry during the summer, especially this summer, but the temperatures, especially that high up, are pretty cool--the photo above was taken in mid-September and it was probably between 20 and 25C. In mid-summer it might be 10 degrees hotter. Much warmer at lower elevations, of course, but then you're often in the trees which helps.

As my last marathon was 20 years ago (at least) I think I'll have to pass on entering your race :-) From the profile you posted it looks like there might be some pretty steep sections.

--Steve

[Johansson]

I think that was a couple of years ago before I started running, since then it has become more and more of an obsession.

I try to keep the training on a level where I won´t hurt my knees or feet, around 30-35km per week right now feels best. I could probably do a 40-50 but then I don´t think I will get enough rest since I spend 8 hours every day walking and carrying stuff at the power plant I work at.

Not more than 25C or so sounds ok, judging from the pics I would say 40+C.

Cheers!
/Anders

[stevep]

LOL re the obsession. When I was doing my best running I was up around 100km/wk. What I found best for marathons was one long run/wk (working up from 20k to almost 36k over 3-4 months) plus two other medium runs of 16-20km during the week and doing almost nothing the other days of the week (maybe a few km just to keep muscles loose). The long run really helps in the latter stages of the race. But it took me several years to get fit enough to do that kind of workout. And I also had a desk job-- I'm not sure I could have done that if I was on my feet all day long.

On the mountain temps, if it is more than about 30C, I stay home and try to find air conditioning. I'm a real wimp when it comes to hot weather.

--Steve

[Johansson]

Woaahh, 100km/week! That is really something, I second that you need to have been running several years before your body can take that kind of training without damaging something.

I have a friend who is a triathlon racer, he is a bit jealous on some of his triathlon buddies with desk jobs, he is a welder on my job so he often complains about having to use his body all day long and not get a proper rest between the workouts.

I am no big fan of heat myself, I ran a half marathon this summer in almost 30°C and it was a challenge for sure. Still managed to pull of a personal best with 1:27:28 and a 10th place with several hundred other runners so I was very satisfied.

Cheers!
/Anders

[stevep]

Yeah, I actually got better results when I dropped the mileage back down to 75km/week with the three major workouts I mentioned above. It's really an exaggerated form of "hard day, easy day", so you make sure you get as much rest as you need to recover from the hard day. The high-mileage (100km/week) required that I do two workouts per day on some days just to get the miles in and I found that those two shorter runs didn't do the same thing that one longer run does. So I scrapped the 100km/week, cut out the two workouts/day, and started doing the three workouts/week, working up to a total of about 75km/week. [Geez, hope that made some sort of sense....]

A person could probably do pretty well with just two semi-long workouts per week. I discovered that a lot of this is about figuring out what workouts *your* body needs vs. what works for other people. I think a lot of the time it takes people to become top-notch runners is just finding out over time what works for them and working up to the point where they can handle the workouts.

So put two of those 1:27 half-marathons together in cool weather and you'd have a pretty good marathon time. My best was 2:52+ and I bet you could come close if not beat that.

--Steve

[Johansson]

2:52 is a very good time on the marathon, did you run "professionally" for a team or just for fun?

As soon as I get rid of my cold I´ve caught this week I will start running some forest tracks around here, I need to strengthen my feet as much as possible before the race since the "track" is very rocky and slippery at places.

Here is a short video from the AXA mountain marathon a couple of years ago, the text in the beginning says: "Are you considering to participate in the race? Think again..." *LOL*



I must be insane, but it looks like tons of fun to me.

Cheers!
/Anders

[stevep]

I ran purely for fun and mostly by myself, although there was a loose group of us that sometimes trained together and went to races together. But even though it was just for fun/fitness, I was always pretty serious about it--I rarely entered a race without wanting to finish with a personal best (which didn't always happen of course), so I tended to train pretty hard most of the time.

I wasn't much of a trail runner, precisely because of the uneven surface. I much preferred the fast surface of asphalt or a 400m track. However, looking at the AXA marathon video it might be something I'd be tempted to do now if I still ran--it would be a huge effort and I'd have to treat it as an "ordeal" rather than a "race", but when you finish, you'd know you'd accomplished something. I see the women's record is just over 4 hours--I'm sure I'd be closer to 6 or 8!

Here in California we have an ultramarathon known as the Western States 100 (meaning 100 miles). I've never been the slightest bit tempted to try it :-)

--Steve

[Johansson]

That is exactly why I run as well, just for the fun of it.

Since I apparently happen to be quite naturally skilled at it it is even more fun thanks to that, been beating PB´s almost every race this year so it is very interesting to see how far I can go without damaging anything or neglecting my primary hobby of building gas turbines.

A 100 mile run is probably nothing I will ever dream of trying, I just got the news that I will get some help with babysitting so I can run a marathon three weeks from now so at least I will have my first marathon done this year. It is a local lucia dress-up kind of thing mostly for fun so everyone stays together for the whole trip chatting along and eating buns at the water stations.

Cheers!
/Anders

[stevep]

Translation please: "local lucia..." lucia??

I have to say that running a liesurely marathon is a heck of a lot easier than running a fast one. It may also be the best way to run one's first marathon.

I would suggest, if you haven't done so already, that you get out there and run at least 30k just to make sure all body parts are ready for 42k--I found that things happen between 30 and 42k that don't happen at shorter distances. Before my first marathon I ran a 20-mile (32k) race (2:19) and the next day discovered I'd injured a knee, even though I wasn't feeling any discomfort during the race. I wasn't able to run for several months. I also found that I had to get used to drinking during the race--I actually had to practice that because initially my body just didn't want to take in any water while I was running.

The thing that is so hard to gauge is what pace you should run -- it seems *so* easy in the early stages that it is tempting to run too fast and then die in the last 10k. The problem is that you won't start feeling tired until it is too late to do anything about it. Until you have one or two under your belt (or some really good training runs at 30-35k) it's hard to judge just how well your body will hold up in the later stages.

I have some tables (that I just pulled out for the first time in many many years) that list comparable times for different distances, assuming you've trained equally well for each distance. They suggest a 3:11 pace for the marathon based on a 1:30 time for the half-marathon. 'Course if you ran your half marathon a year ago, then didn't run for a year, that wouldn't be accurate. But it would be the *fastest* I'd consider trying to run assuming you had run the 1/2 fairly recently and had kept training. But, as I say, things happen after 30k. And, of course, YMMV.

I guess that's just part of the adventure of running a marathon :-) And I hope you have decent weather--it's no fun running that far in the rain....

--Steve

[Johansson]

Oh, I didn´t realize that lucia wasn´t universally celebrated. It is some old Italian saint that we honor by dressing up and singing, we guys dress like a KKK clan and girls somewhat similar but with burning candles in their hands and even on their heads if they are good looking enough.



Very sound advice about my first marathon, I ran a 30k a couple of months ago at a good pace so I think I will get through 42k at the very slow pace that the leader decided. Last year they paced 6:30min/km so it is purely an event to get to know other distance runners and have a good time.

Last night I went out trail finding around where I live to explore a couple of tractor trails in the forest that I can alternate for 10k up to 18k trips, lots of dirt and pot holes and quite steep at places so it feels like a perfect place to get some strength in the ankles for the mountain run!

So far I´ve kept to the paved roads but it was waaay more fun to go running 16k in the pitch black woods slipping around on ice patches and stumbling over mud filled tractor tracks.

Cheers!
/Anders

[stevep]

Thanks for the explanation....you know about the KKK? Geesh, how do you know all this stuff? I mean, your English is damn near perfect and your grasp of U.S. culture is pretty amazing.

Anyway, 6:30/km works out to about a 4.5 hour marathon so I'm sure you'll be able to handle that with no problem. Even wearing one of those hats :-)

Re running in pitch black woods: your idea of fun differs somewhat from mine, but then your age differs somewhat from mine :-)

--Steve

[Johansson]

American culture is more or less something we grow up with in Sweden, so I think we Europeans have a much better grasp of your culture than the other way around.

Reading tons of english fantasy helps a lot with the language.