willisdaye
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Joined: September 2015
Posts: 41 
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Post by willisdaye on Feb 7, 2016 14:32:28 GMT -5
What kind of pump can I use for my engine's oil system? I've heard of people using power steering pumps, but I don't know what kind of fittings they have, or the best way to power it. Could I get by with a 12v pump like this, or even a drill pump? The engine won't be subjected to full power runs, and won't be run for long periods of time. |
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Post by Johansson on Feb 7, 2016 15:38:20 GMT -5
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willisdaye
Member
Joined: September 2015
Posts: 41
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Post by willisdaye on Feb 7, 2016 16:58:49 GMT -5
That one looks great, but it's out of my price range. This one says max temp 60*C, and it has threaded fittings, not barbs. What do you think? |
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Post by smithy1 on Feb 7, 2016 17:42:17 GMT -5
I'm afraid 60*C is nowhere near enough. My GT6041 engine runs cool and it's ~70*C and I'm running a substantial oil cooler. Some of us use an old Subaru external car oil pump connected to 36v electric motors, then run them on 12v, John has successfully done this many times. My 6041 powered Go-Kart uses one of John's setups and works extremely well.
It's best to "over-engineer" your systems, this way you'll have plenty of wiggle room if something doesn't go as expected.
Cheers,
Smithy.
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willisdaye
Member
Joined: September 2015
Posts: 41
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Post by willisdaye on Feb 7, 2016 23:46:52 GMT -5
I think i'll end up getting a power steering pump then. I have two 12v motors off one of those ride-on electric atv toys, and they both have gearboxes. I rummaged around and found the 3/8" axle that can go through both of them as well. Should I hook both of them up to the pump, or will just one do? Also, what's the best way to get power to the pump, direct drive or chain/belt?
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Post by smithy1 on Feb 8, 2016 1:33:55 GMT -5
I think i'll end up getting a power steering pump then. I have two 12v motors off one of those ride-on electric atv toys, and they both have gearboxes. I rummaged around and found the 3/8" axle that can go through both of them as well. Should I hook both of them up to the pump, or will just one do? Also, what's the best way to get power to the pump, direct drive or chain/belt? How many watts are your electric motors rated at? Do they have an amperage rating on them?? Under load you may need a good ~1/2hp or ~370watts or so to pump cold oil with a decent flow and volume. The one fitted to the "Beast" is rated at ~500w...! Mind you it is a 36v motor running only 13.8v.... similar to this one: www.partsforscooters.com/220-24-Electric_motor_500w_36v?sc=31&category=132402Mine is direct drive to the pump...although you could do chain or belt drive if you so choose...I think John is doing a chain driven example for his latest project. I guess it depends on the application and space requirements/restrictions etc...You could also gear up or down to suit. You may have to do a pressure vs volume test on the P/S pump, to see what it needs rpm wise to deliver a decent flow at ~60-65psi...Most P/S pumps have an internal relief but I don't know what pressure they're set to, you could always make up an external relief valve in the outlet line and just run it back to tank or inlet side of the pump. Cheers, Smithy. |
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Post by pitciblackscotland on Feb 8, 2016 2:42:21 GMT -5
I think i'll end up getting a power steering pump then. I have two 12v motors off one of those ride-on electric atv toys, and they both have gearboxes. I rummaged around and found the 3/8" axle that can go through both of them as well. Should I hook both of them up to the pump, or will just one do? Also, what's the best way to get power to the pump, direct drive or chain/belt? How many watts are your electric motors rated at? Do they have an amperage rating on them?? Under load you may need a good ~1/2hp or ~370watts or so to pump cold oil with a decent flow and volume. The one fitted to the "Beast" is rated at ~500w...! Mind you it is a 36v motor running only 13.8v.... similar to this one: www.partsforscooters.com/220-24-Electric_motor_500w_36v?sc=31&category=132402Mine is direct drive to the pump...although you could do chain or belt drive if you so choose...I think John is doing a chain driven example for his latest project. I guess it depends on the application and space requirements/restrictions etc...You could also gear up or down to suit. You may have to do a pressure vs volume test on the P/S pump, to see what it needs rpm wise to deliver a decent flow at ~60-65psi...Most P/S pumps have an internal relief but I don't know what pressure they're set to, you could always make up an external relief valve in the outlet line and just run it back to tank or inlet side of the pump. Cheers, Smithy. I used a P/S pump om my first turbojet work out well. I notice if i increase the rpm on the IC motor the pressure would drop. Cheers, Mark. |
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Post by pitciblackscotland on Feb 8, 2016 2:52:15 GMT -5
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jdw
Member
Joined: January 2012
Posts: 41
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Post by jdw on Feb 8, 2016 9:26:09 GMT -5
I considered using a VW pump on my first but ended up using a 3100 series v6 pump out of a chevy I had laying around and direct driven it with an old trolling motor I had laying around works great makes 45 psi with the oil cold or hot. The motor gets a lil warm but it easily handles 10 min runs.
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willisdaye
Member
Joined: September 2015
Posts: 41
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Post by willisdaye on Feb 8, 2016 10:17:01 GMT -5
Thanks everyone, this is good advice. There's no watt rating on the motors, but I wired one up to a 12v 1amp power supply, and couldn't stall the motor with my hand. I don't have an rpm meter, but I can estimate next time I get a chance. The next problem is that I lack a mill or lathe, so setting up direct drive will be a bit tricky, and I've concluded that there's not enough space in the carriage for chain drive.
One last thing, I'm picking up a pump today, would a small PS pump off say a sedan be better, or a larger one from an f150?
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Post by smithy1 on Feb 8, 2016 15:30:20 GMT -5
Here's a pic of my GT6041 setup as John built it, an old Subaru external oil pump, it's big advantage is a built in relief valve and a spot for a spin-on oil filter, ideal for the job and works perfectly:  The aluminium plate between the pump and electric motor also houses the oil transfer galleries for the pump inlet and outlet....as well as a shaft leak-off drain back to tank. This setup provides ~65psi with cold oil and even when warm it can still deliver over 55psi. This is a "BIG" turbo and requires a good amount of oil to keep it happy. Mark....that VW pump would also be a good unit to use. I suspect most P/S pumps will be fine as long as it can sustain a decent pressure and volume. Cheers, Smithy. |
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Post by pitciblackscotland on Feb 8, 2016 18:08:16 GMT -5
Here's a pic of my GT6041 setup as John built it, an old Subaru external oil pump, it's big advantage is a built in relief valve and a spot for a spin-on oil filter, ideal for the job and works perfectly: The aluminium plate between the pump and electric motor also houses the oil transfer galleries for the pump inlet and outlet....as well as a shaft leak-off drain back to tank. This setup provides ~65psi with cold oil and even when warm it can still deliver over 55psi. This is a "BIG" turbo and requires a good amount of oil to keep it happy. Mark....that VW pump would also be a good unit to use. I suspect most P/S pumps will be fine as long as it can sustain a decent pressure and volume. Cheers, Smithy. Hi Brett, Yep and the price is not bad and a good supply of them as well. There are a lot of vids on how to get more flow out of them www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mld1NcISK44 AS for P/S pumps me and Andrew found that the MITSUBISHI Magna POWER STEERING PUMPs work best, Andrew done some mods and got 100+ oil pressure and volume out of it. Some pics here of what he did and he use a Subaru oil pump without the gears so he could use the oil filtter. Cheers, Mark.    |
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Post by enginewhisperer on Feb 9, 2016 16:30:08 GMT -5
my old setup used a 300w scooter motor with a small multi-v pulley on it, driving a power steering pump (Nissan) with its standard pulley.
It was all made with normal hand tools and worked fine, at least for small turbine engines.
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willisdaye
Member
Joined: September 2015
Posts: 41
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Post by willisdaye on Feb 9, 2016 19:37:50 GMT -5
I'm picking up a subaru pump tomorrow. I'll hook it up to the 12v motors for a volume test, i'll tell you how it goes.
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willisdaye
Member
Joined: September 2015
Posts: 41
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Post by willisdaye on Feb 10, 2016 17:41:53 GMT -5
Okay, I got the pump and all the hoses and fittings for it. I hooked up a 5/8" oil hose to the drain input, and some fittings and a braided turbo hose to the outlet. I put the end of the hose in a fresh oil bucket, and spun it up for a test with a drill and socket attached to the pulley nut. I was going clockwise, and no oil was pumped. Am I turning it the wrong way, or is there some kind of safety valve? It's a PS pump off an 02 subaru impreza.
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