Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2013 8:24:11 GMT -5
Hi Andrew
Hope mine runs half as well :-) nice work
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Post by Johansson on Jun 22, 2013 16:34:39 GMT -5
Hi Andrew, I´ve been reading through the BikeMe thread and I can only wonder if Aussie bikers are generally that daft or if that particular forum only admits idiots, I can agree that you weren´t exactly informative about the bike build but they were nothing but rude even after the latest posts that showed some more detailed construction pics. Keep the good work up and never mind the cunts!  Cheers! /Anders |
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Post by racket on Jun 22, 2013 18:16:08 GMT -5
Hi Andy/Anders
I've rechecked the data for Andrews test run yesterday where ~2 litres of fuel were consumed in ~3 minutes 37 seconds ( 3.66 minutes) whilst idling at a P2 of 10 psi with an "open" exhaust
Some “numbers” for your records .
10psi P2 - 1.68 PR on a 15 C day should have a temp rise in compression at 78% efficiency (as per comp map ) of 59 centigrade degrees , producing a T2 of 74 deg C .
Assuming a turbine stage temperature drop of 50 centigrade degrees with a TOT of 550 deg C , T I T of 600 C degrees , meaning a temp rise in the combustor of 526 centigrade degrees . .................this will require a fuel/air ratio of ~0.014:1 .
2 litres of fuel (~3.5 lbs) contains ~36,250 centigrade heat units ( CHUs) there being ~10,300 CHUs/pound , this was burnt in ~3.66 minutes , a rate of ~9,900 CHUs/minute , assuming 98% burn effic there will be ~9,700 CHUs of heat transfered to the air mass per minute to raise its temperature by 526 centigrade degrees .
9700 CHUs divided by 60seconds/minute = 162 CHUs/second , 162 CHUs divided by 0.24 (specific heat of air ) = 675 , that means those 675 CHUs could raise 1 lb/sec by 675 deg C , but we only raised it by 526 deg C so there must be more than 1 lb/sec mass flow .
675 CHUs divided by 526 centigrade degrees of temperature rise in the combustor = 1.28 so 1.28lbs/sec - 76.8 lbs/min of mass flow.
The TV 94 comp map at a 1.68 PR has an “ideal” corrected flow , centred in the highest efficiency island, of ~70 lbs/min , our 76.8 lbs/min is still within the highest effic. island but just to the high flow side .
The comp map is corrected to 25 deg C ( 298 K) ambiant conditions and a sub standard atmospheric pressure of ~95% of standard pressure ( 28.4"Hg vs 29.92" Hg ) , the relatively cold day ( 288 deg K vs 298 deg K ) will produce an actual increase in flow over the map's corrected flow , the high pressure system over Melbourne at test time will have added a bit more mass flow .
The corrected mass flow at test time would be back at <73 lbs/min , well within our plus or minus 5% "accuracy??" range .
Fuel pressure of 15psi would mean a 5 psi pressure drop across the syringe injectors after accounting for the 10psi "backpressure" from the P2 air, this corresponds fairly closely with my testing at 2,800 ft altitude where my fuel pressure was 17 psig , a couple of psi could be accounted for by gauge variations etc etc ......
Hope this adds to the knowledge base for our engines :-)
Cheers
John
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jettoymaker
Junior Member
Joined: September 2010
Posts: 55
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Post by jettoymaker on Jun 22, 2013 22:38:16 GMT -5
Hi Andy/Anders, Thanks for that Andy, just keep doing what you are and you too can have the nicest toy in the neighborhood.  Yep Anders, I know I gave very little info at the start and that was for good reason as you know, but I mainly wanted to try and engage what is rapidly becoming obvious to me in the general tribal ignorance that abounds in this country. Thought that they might actually be interested in the process and around here I'm classified as leper level so thought a ground level approach with as little pretenses as possible may help, but didn't realise that things mostly operate below ground level for most of the populous here. And you wonder why I have been wanting to live over there...? Figured if I'm going to dip my toe in a particular and unknown sewer, then I bettr get into it a fraction at a time, but I got what I wanted from the excercise, so all good. As you have seen; this is why no bikes will be released here. Good idea about how you aportion your time to the project, as I have been using all of my and some of the family's time and yes..the strain it puts on the marriage and family needs is large. Doing a run again today, but with Mark still working and John in another State, I have to do it alone again as not even my family or associates gives a shit about it. Long live Sweden, Europe and the rest of the civilised world. |
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jettoymaker
Junior Member
Joined: September 2010
Posts: 55
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Post by jettoymaker on Jun 23, 2013 1:15:46 GMT -5
Hi Guys, Just finished another run...all good and stable. Ambiant Temp was 15C (sun shining birds and possums scared shitless) and start duartion was a very solid 8 seconds. Peak temp was 780C on start with idle temps at between 548-560C...can't understand whay the 10 degrees fluctuation, but it seemed stable for about two minute at 550C and climbed in a thirty second period to 560C then stayed there???! Fuel consumption was consistant with the previous runs which pleases me no end, as one of the build parameters I was shooting for was a one hour run time with full tankage, which now appears to be doable. Did a small proximity test for compartment temps as one battery is being used as a sacrificial unit for the you beaut heat shielding we have thrown together using a propritary fabric I modified for the job and found that radiant temps within 3 inches from the exhaust was 165C and around 350-400 (useing the crued method employed to measure) one inch from the duct...the battery is half an inch from the freepower duct and is surviving very nicely..even after the 1145C hot start the other week.  Starter is performing very well and seems very happy being used as part of the cool down sequence additionally. Still haven't gotten around to finding out what the amp draw per start is, but am saving up for the meter so we can: should give us some idea of whether or not we can use the same motor to start the 250hp motor. General battery voltage before start was 13.5V. After run completed was around 12.2V after using all the bells and whistles. Will start saving up for the new high tech batteries, now that we have a reliable and safe unit to develop. I know it's safe because "she" came out of the house for this run and stood a smaller distance from proceedings The two neighbors' kids to the left ate crisps while they watched and applauded because their parents let them come out to see...seems the sound hiding indoors isn't as good as outside... Otherwise all as before. Am comfortable with the start now, but will do two more before I hook up the freepower and see how the start behaves. Got my ear protection off for a few seconds for the run... IT'S VERY LOUD but most appears to be inlet noise which should come down somewhat with work...me like me like! Oil temps are very low for the six minute tests we have allowed with the highest being 78C in the 5 litres onboard after an overtemp episode and at the end of the run on full shutdown and disconect. Nominal oil temp for today's run was 45C at the 'pack up' part of the excercise. Had the inspection cap off during the run and found very little oil vapor evident in the tank...will most likely increase when we get full air pressure for a protracted run going into the freepower at full power...bring on the dyno run. Will post appropriate pics when I get a chance, but it's nothing you guys haven't already seen in your own works. Going to start calling B1 "The Leper" after it's creator, as we live across the road from a church and during the run hardly anyone even looked let alone stopped to see what the noise was 20 metres from where they were...some of them even walked past going to their cars with hardly a turn of the head. I'm living in Zombie Land I think   |
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Post by enginewhisperer on Jun 23, 2013 5:46:40 GMT -5
there are definitely people in Aus who are into this stuff - but there's a surprising number who are not at all interested! I did some test runs of my electric motorbike today, and there was a guy sweeping his driveway across the road who didn't even look. A couple of people further down the road did walk out for a better view though |
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Post by turbochris on Jun 23, 2013 8:05:17 GMT -5
we need some video!
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jettoymaker
Junior Member
Joined: September 2010
Posts: 55
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Post by jettoymaker on Jun 23, 2013 17:39:55 GMT -5
Hi Enginwhisperer, John and I could have had the project finished years ago except for the disinterest and in some cases deliberate stone walling that goes on...never mind; onward and sideways Sorry Chris about the vids, will try and get some up as soon as time permits. Mostly boring stuff you guys have seen anyway...just standing around watching noise happen. Will definately post one of the bike tooling up and down, which is only a couple of weeks away..once start up problems with the freepower attached are addressed and weather permitting. |
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Post by enginewhisperer on Jun 24, 2013 2:15:23 GMT -5
yep, the usual story - always end up having to do it yourself! At least it'll get done properly though I'd love to help with this one, but being in Sydney is not that convenient this time |
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Post by Johansson on Jun 24, 2013 17:07:54 GMT -5
Hi Andy/Anders I've rechecked the data for Andrews test run yesterday where ~2 litres of fuel were consumed in ~3 minutes 37 seconds ( 3.66 minutes) whilst idling at a P2 of 10 psi with an "open" exhaust Some “numbers” for your records . 10psi P2 - 1.68 PR on a 15 C day should have a temp rise in compression at 78% efficiency (as per comp map ) of 59 centigrade degrees , producing a T2 of 74 deg C . Assuming a turbine stage temperature drop of 50 centigrade degrees with a TOT of 550 deg C , T I T of 600 C degrees , meaning a temp rise in the combustor of 526 centigrade degrees . .................this will require a fuel/air ratio of ~0.014:1 . 2 litres of fuel (~3.5 lbs) contains ~36,250 centigrade heat units ( CHUs) there being ~10,300 CHUs/pound , this was burnt in ~3.66 minutes , a rate of ~9,900 CHUs/minute , assuming 98% burn effic there will be ~9,700 CHUs of heat transfered to the air mass per minute to raise its temperature by 526 centigrade degrees . 9700 CHUs divided by 60seconds/minute = 162 CHUs/second , 162 CHUs divided by 0.24 (specific heat of air ) = 675 , that means those 675 CHUs could raise 1 lb/sec by 675 deg C , but we only raised it by 526 deg C so there must be more than 1 lb/sec mass flow . 675 CHUs divided by 526 centigrade degrees of temperature rise in the combustor = 1.28 so 1.28lbs/sec - 76.8 lbs/min of mass flow. The TV 94 comp map at a 1.68 PR has an “ideal” corrected flow , centred in the highest efficiency island, of ~70 lbs/min , our 76.8 lbs/min is still within the highest effic. island but just to the high flow side . The comp map is corrected to 25 deg C ( 298 K) ambiant conditions and a sub standard atmospheric pressure of ~95% of standard pressure ( 28.4"Hg vs 29.92" Hg ) , the relatively cold day ( 288 deg K vs 298 deg K ) will produce an actual increase in flow over the map's corrected flow , the high pressure system over Melbourne at test time will have added a bit more mass flow . The corrected mass flow at test time would be back at <73 lbs/min , well within our plus or minus 5% "accuracy??" range . Fuel pressure of 15psi would mean a 5 psi pressure drop across the syringe injectors after accounting for the 10psi "backpressure" from the P2 air, this corresponds fairly closely with my testing at 2,800 ft altitude where my fuel pressure was 17 psig , a couple of psi could be accounted for by gauge variations etc etc ...... Hope this adds to the knowledge base for our engines :-) Cheers John Thanks for the numbers John, very much information squeezed out of a few temp and pressure readings. |
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Post by Johansson on Jun 24, 2013 17:13:19 GMT -5
Hi Andy/Anders, Thanks for that Andy, just keep doing what you are and you too can have the nicest toy in the neighborhood. Yep Anders, I know I gave very little info at the start and that was for good reason as you know, but I mainly wanted to try and engage what is rapidly becoming obvious to me in the general tribal ignorance that abounds in this country. Thought that they might actually be interested in the process and around here I'm classified as leper level so thought a ground level approach with as little pretenses as possible may help, but didn't realise that things mostly operate below ground level for most of the populous here. And you wonder why I have been wanting to live over there...? Figured if I'm going to dip my toe in a particular and unknown sewer, then I bettr get into it a fraction at a time, but I got what I wanted from the excercise, so all good. As you have seen; this is why no bikes will be released here. Good idea about how you aportion your time to the project, as I have been using all of my and some of the family's time and yes..the strain it puts on the marriage and family needs is large. Doing a run again today, but with Mark still working and John in another State, I have to do it alone again as not even my family or associates gives a shit about it. Long live Sweden, Europe and the rest of the civilised world. Hi Andrew, I must say that they have a *very* high ceiling in that forum, many of those comments would have resulted in a permanent ban if they were posted in our swedish sportbike forum. Must be some image thing, playing outlaws and stuff. Keep the test runs coming, every start adds important info to the data base for our engines. Although a rolling burnout through the neighborhood would be nice too. Cheers! /Anders |
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Post by racket on Jun 24, 2013 17:18:42 GMT -5
Hi Anders
LOL.....with a T2 thrown into the calcs we could determine compressor efficiency and have even more accurate outcomes , thats the interesting part about our engines , everything is interconnected and can be cross checked with a bit of maths :-)
Hows the baby sitting going , I hope you're enjoying the summer time with the girls ??
Cheers
John
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Post by Johansson on Jun 25, 2013 16:20:12 GMT -5
Hi Anders LOL.....with a T2 thrown into the calcs we could determine compressor efficiency and have even more accurate outcomes , thats the interesting part about our engines , everything is interconnected and can be cross checked with a bit of maths :-) Hows the baby sitting going , I hope you're enjoying the summer time with the girls ?? Cheers John Hi John, Turbines are indeed fashinating creatures. It is going very well thank you, I am getting the hang of it now so I manage to do most the work around the house while the kids are playing around the back yard so I usually have some time left at the end of the day to get some hobby work done as well. Tonight two stunt motorcycle riders dropped by to get an engine mount and an oil pan welded, my neighbor celebrated his 40th birthday so when the welding was over one of the guys gave him a free show with some circle wheelies and stoppies. Very appreciated. Cheers! /Anders |
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jettoymaker
Junior Member
Joined: September 2010
Posts: 55
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Post by jettoymaker on Aug 4, 2013 2:00:20 GMT -5
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Post by racket on Aug 4, 2013 3:58:29 GMT -5
Hi Andrew
Love the growl :-)
Cheers
John
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