jetric
Veteran Member
Joined: December 2014
Posts: 147
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Post by jetric on Feb 9, 2015 12:19:06 GMT -5
Hi Ian, Here's a good book for you to buy unless you all ready have a copy its from the Rolls-Royce Heritage Trust and its called 'Pistons to Blades' small gas turbine developments by the rover company. Shame you want to keep the car historically correct i could of sold you my running Isotov GTD350, 400hp with 6000rpm freepower output would of bolted straight onto your prop shaft! Rich.
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Post by pitciblackscotland on Feb 9, 2015 14:37:46 GMT -5
Hi Ian, Both bulk heads can be removed from the engine also the intake duct can be removed aswell because the engine has got an intake filter screen fitted to the engine inside the intake duct that is not fixed to the duct( you have to attack the intake duct with tin snips to remove it the easy way or you could do it the proper way but you have to remove all of the accessories and plumbing off the front to remove it forward ). A word of warning if you are going to put the engine at the side of you in the cockpit please fit a burst sheild of 1/4 inch thick plate between you and the engine because if anything on your final drive line fails the freepower turbine will instantly overspeed and possably burst with enough energy to cut you in half!!! With regards to the ignitors they are surface discharge and wont work with a high tension ignition coil i.e. car igniton coil/gas fire coil you have to use a cracker box with them ( this is the common name for them because the unit works by charging up a large capacitor then discharging the capacitor across the ignitor plug with a loud crack noise ) harry has got a few of these units for sale from aircraft engines, if he has got none left i could make you a unit up that uses modern electronics with a microwave capacitor for about the same cost ( a word of warning with regards to cracker boxes only power them up when they are connected to the ignitor plug because if you accidently touch the ignitor lead end whilst the capacitor is charged it will give you an instant heart attack!!! ) Rich. Hey guys, What about using a Jacob's Ladder I used this one i got off ebay 310869503050 and work well on my JFS 100 here is a vid of the test start youtu.be/PmDDDzl3wGc Cheers, Mark.
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Post by frankenhealey on Feb 9, 2015 17:01:33 GMT -5
Hi Ian, Here's a good book for you to buy unless you all ready have a copy its from the Rolls-Royce Heritage Trust and its called 'Pistons to Blades' small gas turbine developments by the rover company. Shame you want to keep the car historically correct i could of sold you my running Isotov GTD350, 400hp with 6000rpm freepower output would of bolted straight onto your prop shaft! Rich. Rich, I got the book last week. It's a good read but makes me want a 2S/200 or a 2S/350R now With the Isotov I'd be up for the 253/257mph under 500/1000kg class turbine record but it sadly wouldn't be the mythical never-built Healey with Rover power. Maybe for a streamliner build next. I'd be very interested in an ignitor system from you if you could PM me with the cost and timeframe. Mark, Thanks for the suggestion but if I use Rich's ignitor the poor bloke will have to put up with me asking interminable dumb questions Cheers, Ian
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Post by pitciblackscotland on Feb 9, 2015 17:57:21 GMT -5
Heheheh no worries mate.
Cheers, Mark.
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gidge348
Senior Member
Joined: September 2010
Posts: 426
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Post by gidge348 on Feb 10, 2015 8:01:21 GMT -5
Hi Ian, I am also building a car for land speed racing in the ΩTII class and one thing I would highly recommend with a build is to get a rulebook and have a quick look at what you will need to do. You can buy a SCTA (Bonneville) rule book here www.scta-bni.org/index.html , but if you just want to have a look at one the DLRA (Australia) rule book is similar and free here www.dlra.org.au/technical.htmHave a look here as well www.landracing.com/ for build diaries and lots of information. Cheers Ian...
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Post by frankenhealey on Feb 10, 2015 9:17:14 GMT -5
Hi Ian, I am also building a car for land speed racing in the ΩTII class and one thing I would highly recommend with a build is to get a rulebook and have a quick look at what you will need to do. You can buy a SCTA (Bonneville) rule book here www.scta-bni.org/index.html , but if you just want to have a look at one the DLRA (Australia) rule book is similar and free here www.dlra.org.au/technical.htmHave a look here as well www.landracing.com/ for build diaries and lots of information. Cheers Ian... Hi Ian, I got into the concept of LSR about a year ago and acquired the SCTA rule book. The original idea was to go with my 480 bhp Healey 100 but I decided in the end that I didn't want the car rusting away as it's my UK racecar and general Porsche GT3 frightener. The idea then was to build a Healey Sprite in the 1 litre class to give the Milwaukee Midget a run for its money. Then the clouds opened, the sunlight blasted through, a large hand from above with the forefinger pointing attracted my attention and a voice like Morgan Freeman's said "TURBINE" and I've been hooked ever since. Being a VERY black sheep of the Healey community the opportunity to do a mythical turbine Healey could not be passed up. Estimated year of the Salt for me is 2017 and it's a damn shame that you're not in the UK or I'm in OZ as we could have shared a container. Do you have a build thread on landracing.com or elsewhere? My project is stalled on the build front at the moment trying to work out how to get an SCTA rollcage under the Lenham roof and me being still able to see our of the windscreen. If that's not possible I may just run at WOS in the 150mph club. Of course with my weedy 140 bhp turbine I'll only be going for the craic Cheers, Ian
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gidge348
Senior Member
Joined: September 2010
Posts: 426
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Post by gidge348 on Feb 11, 2015 19:50:17 GMT -5
HI Ian, Yep I have a build page here on Jato jetandturbineowners.proboards.com/thread/433/gearbox-modification I haven't updated it in a while as I have been mainly working on the Aero stuff with a guy in the US, and it has mainly been a process of doing drawings getting feedback and going back and doing the drawings again....and again..... and again.... I have also been working in the Diff and brakes at the moment and am waiting for some parts but will take some pics and load them up once I have something interesting show. I will be running my car here in Australia before making the big trip across the pond to the big white dyno (Bonneville). If there is anything I can help with just let me know. Cheers Ian...
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Post by frankenhealey on Feb 16, 2015 13:38:31 GMT -5
DUMB QUESTION MONDAY (because I've had all weekend to think of them ) 1) I know the dimensions of my current inlet and exhaust but I've got to get the exhaust from the centre of the passenger side at roughly the B post back to the rear panel or out through the boot floor, whichever is the most aerodynamically advantageous. Are there any references/equations to calculate the inlet/exhaust areas or do I just accept the sizes I've got? 2) If I've come up with a cunning and cheap plan to heat the intake air using waste heat from the exhaust is it worth it? I had the idea of using high temperature stainless flexible ducting to vent the exhaust and that ridged outer surface makes a pretty reasonable radiator so if I ran the exhaust inside a bigger inlet duct then the inlet air would be heated and I wouldn't have a 650 C pipe in the cab with me. Mad/stupid? Please advise. Cheers, Ian
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jetric
Veteran Member
Joined: December 2014
Posts: 147
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Post by jetric on Feb 16, 2015 17:52:46 GMT -5
Hi Ian, (1)With regards to the inlet and exhaust dimentions i'm afraid you are stuck with the sizes you have got as any reduction in either duct size will increase EGT temps and possibly cause the compressor to surge ( them rover engineers knew what they were doing ) (2) The idea of heating the inlet air is a big no no (remember this is a gas turbine not a piston engine) heating the inlet air reduces its density which will reduce HP and increase Exhaust Gas Temps plus the compressor wheel on the gas producer is made from aluminium which is a problem if you heat the intake air because the temperature of the discharge air from the compressor into the combustion chamber at full throttle will be around 200 to 250oC with no pre heated intake air so the outer edge of the compressor wheel will be running at these temps too, aluminium looses a lot of its strength above 300oC so if you then heat the intake air by 100oC the compressor discharge temp will then be 350oC and possibly higher due to the reduced compressor efficiency at higher inlet temps and the compressor wheel will be much weaker and possibly fail ( A lot of tractor pullers have this problem when they use two stage turbocharging i.e. the outlet of one turbocharger compressor feeding into the inlet of the second turbocharger compressor, they either use water injection into the first or second turbo compressor to bring the charge temp down for the second turbo comp wheel or interstage intercooling or a titanium compressor wheel on the second turbo compressor ) By the way this is what happens when a turbine wheel fails in a commertial airliner engine! ouch! It cut the engine in half!! Then enbedded the turbine wheel in the engine next to it!!!
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gidge348
Senior Member
Joined: September 2010
Posts: 426
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Post by gidge348 on Feb 17, 2015 19:15:50 GMT -5
Yep Ian, You don't want to be sitting next to a turbine if something decides to let go.... Just a suggestion, but you may want to investigate water/methanol injection? Cheers Other Ian...
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Post by frankenhealey on Mar 9, 2015 7:26:36 GMT -5
Dear All,
After much measuring, beer drinking, further measuring, giving up after drinking too much beer, returning to the problem the next day, not drinking beer until all measurements are confirmed and then beer drinking to celebrate; we can get the Rover/Lucas under the bonnet so I won't have to sit next to it. We'll incorporate some burst 'armour' so our feet are protected and move on to the next problem.
Having decided on a gearbox we need to get on with designing the coupling system which means the air compressor has to come off. I can build a test bench with the compressor connected to the turbine for testing and fettling but when the turbine is in the car the free power will essentially have no load except holding it on the brakes.
My Dumb Question Monday enquiry is that is there any accepted or even cunning way to keep the free power stalled until you want it to turn?
Cheers,
Ian
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Post by Richard OConnell on Mar 9, 2015 9:15:17 GMT -5
Chirs Krug's minivan is able to hold the free turbine on the brakes. I want to say they arent modified in any way, buy that would be a better question for him.
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Post by racket on Mar 9, 2015 17:04:51 GMT -5
Hi Ian
A number of the turbine car manufacturers used a "wastegate/dump valve" between gas producer and freepower wheel to relieve interstage gas pressure when idling , this not only reduced the desire to creep forward but also lowered idling fuel burn rates and idling temperatures due to the reduction of "backpressure" on the gas producer .
I'm assuming you'll be using a single speed gearbox...........yes/no ??
Cheers John
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Post by racket on Mar 9, 2015 17:33:46 GMT -5
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Post by frankenhealey on Mar 10, 2015 5:45:00 GMT -5
Hi Ian A number of the turbine car manufacturers used a "wastegate/dump valve" between gas producer and freepower wheel to relieve interstage gas pressure when idling , this not only reduced the desire to creep forward but also lowered idling fuel burn rates and idling temperatures due to the reduction of "backpressure" on the gas producer . I'm assuming you'll be using a single speed gearbox...........yes/no ?? Cheers John Hi John, Thanks for the wastegate/dump valve info and yes it will be a single stage industrial gearbox. I'll do the same as Anders and pull it apart, use better bearings, oil feed to the bearings and gears and scavenge from the base of the casing. Cheers, Ian
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